Revolutionary War era clasp knife

[Jim McDougall]

In ongoing research on this intriguing old knife/stylus, there are certain inherent qualities that render it having maritime possibility, despite not being an item specifically for such context. The mere fact that these were clearly diffused through SE Asia, Malaysia and East Indies of course suggests they were indeed aboard trade vessels through these networks.

Aboard ships, especially pirate and privateer vessels with their own autonomy rather than stenrict regulation, the clever eye of the sailor, regardless of what flag he sailed under, was keen and innovative. These would likely have been seen as a 'novelty', and primarily as a folding knife alone......however the stylus, in essence a spike, while having utilitarian measure......would be deadly if used as a close quarters weapon. Not as much in combat, as in stealth, a stab in key location would be mortal. Naturally, these kinds of matters would escape any sort of record as the typical chroniclers of this history would not usually have such information.

Carl Sagan once observed, it is not so much the study of written history that needs attention, but that of 'unwritten' history, where many answers and secrets are to be found. This is perhaps badly paraphrased, but it is the idea I took from it.

[M ELEY]

Hello Jim and thank you for your valuable perspective. I'm feeling a lot less 'bummed out' about it now. Many of the items in my collection range from odd ethnographic pieces to New World colonial, bearing in mind that such items indeed were a part of the maritime world of trading, piracy and exotic 'goods'. I'll definitely do more research, though, the next time I decide to step out of my comfort zone (big edgy things) to buy something different (little folding edgy things)

[Jim McDougall]

It seems funny that in the 'maritime' world these knives, remarkably of the exact same configuration with blade and awl are indeed called sailors knives.
The awl is apparently referred to as a 'marlin' spike (clearly for the big game fish) and similar have appeared as pre-Civil War from notable collections with blacksmith forged iron parts.

These same type knives are still being produced, for some reason nicknamed the '1757'.

Is it not possible that such knives aboard vessels might have been seen by these Chettiars (accountants with palm leaf pages) in trade ports, and adopted the form as convenient. Most scribes seem to have been in static locations, so why would a folding stylus be required, unless they were in transit and keeping records?

Attached is the 'pre Civil war' sailors knife from Walt Hallstein collection that was auctioned some time ago. It was noted as having blacksmith forged iron parts.

[urbanspaceman]

Hey Jim, I have to tell you about the Marlin Spike:
first the fish was named after the tool and not vice-versa.
Second, Marlin is a contraction of Marling.
Marling is the term for rope work, as rope was made from Marl.
Obviously a mandatory tool shipboard.
On a similar note, I recently sold a WW2 German SAK handled trench knife (see pic) that featured a canvas and leather stitching tool which I found curious as I've not seen examples of soldiers repairing such materials, but then I've led a sheltered life.
The other feature was a cork screw: convivial imbibing round the night fire perhaps.

[Jim McDougall]

Keith, thank you so much! You're truly a fountain of knowledge...I had no idea on the name of the Marlin fish!Its fascinating how terms and their etymology have so much history.

So far my efforts to connect this knife and its form to 'Jack tars' is tenuous, as it seems the stylus used by the Chettiars (palm leaf accountants) was known as 'narayam'. These apparently were not only in the fixed type stylus but were known in this folding form(the term 'Swiss' Army knife is used) so they must have been in use independently from the maritime use I supposed.

Still, the nautical 'marlin' knives still used today with awl suggest obviously their use. While the spike seems very small for heavy work on canvas, it might serve in other matters with rigging and rope beyond my limited awareness of such things.

Whatever the case, this does stand as a Tamil scribes stylus, and by the metal etc it seems end of 18th into 19th c.....Anandalal, based in Sri Lanka, identified one identical to this as such a number of years ago.

Thank you again for helping with this quandry, an usual item, clearly not often seen, at least as far as Ive seen.

Best regards,
Jim

[Radboud]

Jim, the spike is used to untie knots. As you will appreciate, knots are placed under a lot of tension on boats (or swell from water when natural materials are used). So there are times when extra leverage is needed to undo them. Inserting the marlin spike inbetween the strands allows you to wriggle the knot loose enough to untie it.

Another use is when you are splicing ropes to work the individual strands apart. These spikes have a lot of utility on boats where so much was held together by rope and canvas.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Jim, the spike is used to untie knots. As you will appreciate, knots are placed under a lot of tension on boats (or swell from water when natural materials are used). So there are times when extra leverage is needed to undo them. Inserting the marlin spike inbetween the strands allows you to wriggle the knot loose enough to untie it.

Another use is when you are splicing ropes to work the individual strands apart. These spikes have a lot of utility on boats where so much was held together by rope and canvas.

That makes sense, kinda like me with my shoelaces!! auughh! the dynamics of tension and water also cause issues. Thank you!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Attached is the 'pre Civil war' sailors knife from Walt Hallstein collection that was auctioned some time ago. It was noted as having blacksmith forged iron parts.

Hi Jim,

The knife you showed is also a lontar scribe's knife.
Attached a pic of my small collection of these knives.
Never believe descriptions auction houses provide!
Regards,
Detlef

[Jim McDougall]

well spoken Detlef!
Thank you for showing these. What exactly is a lontar scribe? I know that scribes using these stylus' were widely spread throughout SE Asia, but am not familiar with the many ethnic groups.

The one shown in the OP, with fluted grip, can you say more on the style. While it reminds me of neoclassic European style, you would be more familiar with the period and perhaps regional classification of this particular style.

Do you think it is feasible that sailors might have obtained these as earlier suggested and used them as awls?

The OP example seems c. 1790s by the pitted blades IMO, and the general feel of it when handled.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

well spoken Detlef!
Thank you for showing these. What exactly is a lontar scribe? I know that scribes using these stylus' were widely spread throughout SE Asia, but am not familiar with the many ethnic groups.

The one shown in the OP, with fluted grip, can you say more on the style. While it reminds me of neoclassic European style, you would be more familiar with the period and perhaps regional classification of this particular style.

Do you think it is feasible that sailors might have obtained these as earlier suggested and used them as awls?

The OP example seems c. 1790s by the pitted blades IMO, and the general feel of it when handled.

Hi Jim,

Lontar is a palm. The lontar palm leaves are used to write on them, the scribes write or better scribe the text with the needle and rub a plant ash inside.The term I used was "lontar scribe's knife". But hit me, I can't tell from my memories of how the knife was used but when my old brain works well to cut the leaves. All the knives here shown (not only mine) come from India, maybe Sri Lanka, so far I know.
When you look close, you will see that my black wood ones are fluted as well. I guess for better grip!?
And yes, I guess that they can be fairly old. I know not too much about them, I assembled them when I saw them and when they were not too expensive.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Look here for better understanding: https://www.alamy.de/fotos-bilder/lo...ortBy=relevant