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|  24th February 2024, 08:53 AM | #1 | 
| Member Join Date: Jul 2019 
					Posts: 61
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			Interesting  how research we took as gospel is now being replaced, certainly makes sense that these aattributed german/ austrian pistols could well have been made within the Ottoman empire either by European gunsmiths or skilled local gunsmiths to a European  style.
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|  24th February 2024, 11:04 AM | #2 | 
| (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal 
					Posts: 9,694
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			Beautiful pistols indeed. Interesting how different cultures handled the situation of the loose ramrod. - Last edited by fernando; 24th February 2024 at 11:33 AM. | 
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|  24th February 2024, 09:58 PM | #3 | 
| Member Join Date: Feb 2024 Location: Perth, Western Australia 
					Posts: 22
				 |  Ramrod 
			
			Interesting how different cultures handled the situation of the loose ramrod. Yes, it is Fernando. I have this picture in my mind of someone drawing their flintlock from their belt with a cowboy-like flourish and putting their attackers eye out as the ramrod flies out of it's sleeve like an arrow from a bow. Another image is of the poor soldier who, after loading his pistol, gets shot as he tries to figure out how the captive ramrod fits back into the pistol. | 
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|  25th February 2024, 09:37 AM | #4 | 
| (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal 
					Posts: 9,694
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|  25th February 2024, 11:31 AM | #5 | 
| Member Join Date: Oct 2007 
					Posts: 1,646
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			Hi, My only example of a suma is a utilitarian Ottoman military combination of rod and powder flask early 19thC. Pictured is also an illustration of same from the book Description of Egypt. Regards, Norman. P.S. A very fine pair of pistols you had.   | 
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|  25th February 2024, 10:04 PM | #6 | 
| Member Join Date: Feb 2024 Location: Perth, Western Australia 
					Posts: 22
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			Thanks Norman, and thanks for the photo, Sumas could become the focus of a whole new genre of collecting.
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