Old Java Keris ???

Gavin Nugent · 17th July 2023, 03:30 AM

I was speaking with a learned gent this week about Bugis Malaysian keris and I bought this blade in to conversation.

Without any data provided by me other than three images a suspected date range Alan has indicated, it was pointed out to me he in his excitement in the first instance that he agreed with the age assessment based on the photos.

I was provided some very interesting thoughts too. He noted the steel type as being very very rare, being made from a Sulawesi iron and made into steel alloy. White carbon steel was the term used, a very pure bright crucible steel. I am certainly not versed in metallurgy but found it interesting.
The Malay term I have asked for the spelling... other here may know the term?

He noted that these were dangerously sharp like a razor, which is supported in what discourse I read on the steel type in today's knife making.

As a side not too, the steel to me in hand is light like an alloy compound. I am sure the POB and nature of the wide deep fullering has a lot to do with this, but in the hand it is much more. I have only ever experienced this type of steel with a light alloy feel once before, being in the a Georgian National treasure made by the Elizarasjvili(Eliarashvili)/Eliarov family of master smiths, that now resides in a museums care.

Further to this, he had informed me that such a blade type was not seen outside of Royal families or those very close to them.
These points got me to thinking about this blade and the bright steel and provenance.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=30

As many of you know, I have struggled with the conserve/preserve vs the restoration of keris...In many instances I have a foot in both camps, some I do, some I don't...

This is one of those that I don't believe in restoration, but rather a conserve for the future in its current state, being a looking glass in to the past, a preservation of an artefact.

I understand cultural points of view and the faith many have in if it is old make it new again, but with what Alan noted above, which added further weight to my choices to conserve, should I strip this down and follow a path of restoration, what's left.... a loose blade that may be mistaken for Bali... we all know data is rarely collected and retained across generations as things move hands... I feel it would be a shame to interrupt the story of this keris in doing so... another point was made recently to me about this subject too... it was said, we are not in the courts of old or at war with these artefacts anymore, they deserve the respect of the passage of time also... perhaps this has opened the old can of worms on this matter...

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17th July 2023, 03:30 AM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I was speaking with a learned gent this week about Bugis Malaysian keris and I bought this blade in to conversation. Without any data provided by me other than three images a suspected date range Alan has indicated, it was pointed out to me he in his excitement in the first instance that he agreed with the age assessment based on the photos. I was provided some very interesting thoughts too. He noted the steel type as being very very rare, being made from a Sulawesi iron and made into steel alloy. White carbon steel was the term used, a very pure bright crucible steel. I am certainly not versed in metallurgy but found it interesting. The Malay term I have asked for the spelling... other here may know the term? He noted that these were dangerously sharp like a razor, which is supported in what discourse I read on the steel type in today's knife making. As a side not too, the steel to me in hand is light like an alloy compound. I am sure the POB and nature of the wide deep fullering has a lot to do with this, but in the hand it is much more. I have only ever experienced this type of steel with a light alloy feel once before, being in the a Georgian National treasure made by the Elizarasjvili(Eliarashvili)/Eliarov family of master smiths, that now resides in a museums care. Further to this, he had informed me that such a blade type was not seen outside of Royal families or those very close to them. These points got me to thinking about this blade and the bright steel and provenance. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=30 As many of you know, I have struggled with the conserve/preserve vs the restoration of keris...In many instances I have a foot in both camps, some I do, some I don't... This is one of those that I don't believe in restoration, but rather a conserve for the future in its current state, being a looking glass in to the past, a preservation of an artefact. I understand cultural points of view and the faith many have in if it is old make it new again, but with what Alan noted above, which added further weight to my choices to conserve, should I strip this down and follow a path of restoration, what's left.... a loose blade that may be mistaken for Bali... we all know data is rarely collected and retained across generations as things move hands... I feel it would be a shame to interrupt the story of this keris in doing so... another point was made recently to me about this subject too... it was said, we are not in the courts of old or at war with these artefacts anymore, they deserve the respect of the passage of time also... perhaps this has opened the old can of worms on this matter...