the green tomahawk of the Rogers Rangers?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by kronckew

This sword was made by a village blacksmith for Natty Bumppo in 1755, he carried and used it thru-out the French & Indian wars of the period. It was bequeathed to his descendants, who used it in the Carolinas ravaged by Cornwallis' cavalry in the revolutionary war later in the century. The photo was taken by his current descendent, who wishes to remain anonymous.

Looks like a Filipino ginunting.

[M ELEY]

David's example is indeed a nice trade ax. I've seen this pattern on French trade axes coming to the Americas. The fact that it has a maker's stamp makes me think more early 19th c, but there were some early (18th c) axes with maker marks, but they usually were accompanied by maker stamps (trade marks like flower shapes, diamond pattern stamps, etc). You know, I can't tell for sure, but it seems to have evidence of hand forging. The problem is, axes that were blacksmith-made and done well is hard to tell and cast (post-1820's) axe heads often had their seam-lines filed down to appear more seamless. Better, close-up pics can help identify

[David R]

In the hand it looks to be of the wrap around type with an inserted edge, but pitting hides a lot of this sort of detail. What I can say is that it takes a very sharp edge and was my favourite camp axe, retired when I realised that it was probably an antique with some history.
Bought off "Bodger's" stall, at a reenactors fair.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Ian

Looks like a Filipino ginunting.

It was a joke response to 'interested party's previous post's request.


He wanted to see a story, so I made up a cheeky story for him. It is of course a 20c villager ginunting made by Jun Silva in the Philippines. About as far from the Carolinas as possible.

Still, would have worked well in the swamps & woods there, better than Mel Gibson's tomahawk (in the Patriot) I suspect. (It's one of the sharpest blades I own)

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by kronckew

It was a joke response to 'interested party's previous post's request.

He wanted to see a story, so I made up a cheeky story for him. It is of course a 20c villager ginunting made by Jun Silva in the Philippines. About as far from the Carolinas as possible.

Still, would have worked well in the swamps & woods there, better than Mel Gibson's tomahawk (in the Patriot) I suspect. (It's one of the sharpest blades I own)

I'm not looking a story, but an example with providence. It was checky though. Natty Bumppo was a Vermonter, a different ethnic group, and an English apologist, not a Jacobite refugee. If I remember correctly Cooper had to flee the US for a time as his political views were unpopular, but a man ahead of his time in that England and US eventually developed a "special" relationship a hundred years later and archeological evidence gave his books view of the French Indian war validity after nearly a hundred years of it being considered over the top in the description of the collateral damage incurred to the frontier settlements.

And yes, this blade would have worked well in underbrush and swamps. It looks like a chisel edge that would produce a very smooth cut on the backhand stroke for a right hander. Like a broad ax or a slicker chisel. A little forward curve for vines and a sharpened false edge allowing clever falso dritto and montante sotto mano cuts. As a utility blade I have wondered if the blade was wrapped in cloth, leather, or leaves so it could be gripped near the false edge, and the false edge then could be used to skin animals? Off in the ethno weeds here.

Who knows maybe these ideas will grow in my mind. Looking for these short swords and Scottish basket hilts in the Carolinas could be for me what the espada ancha and verdadera destreza are for Mr. McDougall.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I'm not looking a story, but an example with providence. It was checky though. ...
Who knows maybe these ideas will grow in my mind. Looking for these short swords and Scottish basket hilts in the Carolinas could be for me what the espada ancha and verdadera destreza are for Mr. McDougall.

You didn't mention 'provenance' in the original what if.


Fortuitous, you mentioned Scottish basket hilts (I don't have one). I've been looking for info on why the UK switches from the protective but heavy basket hilt to a simple crossbar guard as the 'service hilt'.The last UK Officer to actually carry one into battle (as far as I have heard) was 'Mad Jack' Churchill, and he had the basket hilted version. And a piper!

[M ELEY]

Here's an early hammer pole ax of the tool type versus those that were both weapon/tool types (i.e. rifleman's belt axes, see Neumann). This blacksmith-made hammer pole has a cut channel nail puller, chestnut original haft.

[M ELEY]

I still believe Roger's Rangers would have carried 'spike tomahawk' types, as they were excellent weapons as well as tools. Who knows? Perhaps they carried both.

Here's an early spike ax, hand-forged with steel bit, oblong eye, eared pattern and single-bearded blade. Haft is perhaps original?

[M ELEY]

This spike ax has the original full haft, a rarity these days. It is of the eared form, single bearded blade with steel bit edge chewed to pieces over time! The eye is long oval and this one very close to the period of Rogers. You will note the lug repair, as breakage near the eye for these types was common. Blacksmith repairs to these was not uncommon and in Neumann (Swords and Blades of the American Revolution), there is one in a group with a similar repair.

One will note the rather squarish slot on this one. I believe this to be a beaver trap chain pull, very common on fur trade axes (why else would a non-hammer ax have such a channel? Can't hammer a nail with a spike!). Beaver traps were set in icy waters and it probably got old reaching down into murky water to check the traps (not to mention the little bugger might bite 'cha if she wearn't dead!)

[JoeCanada42]

I found something out that I though was funny and wanted to share, for the chipping hammer I posted, I was able to discern some writing on the handle

Atlas
"Tomahawk"
Troy Mich Usa

[David R]

Originally Posted by kronckew

You didn't mention 'provenance' in the original what if.


Fortuitous, you mentioned Scottish basket hilts (I don't have one). I've been looking for info on why the UK switches from the protective but heavy basket hilt to a simple crossbar guard as the 'service hilt'.The last UK Officer to actually carry one into battle (as far as I have heard) was 'Mad Jack' Churchill, and he had the basket hilted version. And a piper!

They had both, the tang finished with a tommy bar screw cap so the guards were interchangeable. Why the crossguard for field use, because in modern warfare (post 1890's) an officer had more than enough encumbrances and few to no opportunities for a sword fight.

[David R]

If we are going down the boarding axe route you might like this place. http://www.boardingaxe.com/index.html

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by David R

They had both, the tang finished with a tommy bar screw cap so the guards were interchangeable. Why the cross guard for field use, because in modern warfare (post 1890's) an officer had more than enough encumbrances and few to no opportunities for a sword fight.

The last (?) person to deliberately carry a Scottish Basket Hilt sword into battle, was probably Col. 'Mad Jack' Churchill, in WW2, who carried his ashore on the raid he led in Norway, sword in hand as he hit the beach, followed by his Piper playing the bagpipes. He actually captured a whole passel of Germans with it. He also killed a German sergeant with an English longbow, but that's another story. He could, and did, fill a few books about his exploits.