Yataghan translation request

[eftihis]

I would be greatfull for a translation of the script.

[mariusgmioc]

Interesting piece!

Is it Greek?

I can only read the year 1076 corresponding to 1666 in Gregorian calendar. However, to my eyes this piece is more like 19th century (very crisp silver koftgari is certainly not 350 years old)...

... but for sure I am by no means very knowledgeable so these are only speculations.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Interesting piece!

Is it Greek?

:

Ottoman Crete

[ariel]

Marius.

Creation and decoration of a yataghan was as a rule a private business deal between the master and the user. This is why many Yataghans carry names of both. Thus, it would be difficult to postulate a flagrantly wrong date on the blade.


Physical condition of anything largely depends on the circumstances of its storage and usage. Objects in Dresden Turkish Chamber arrived there as newly made or at least almost newly made and the dates of their arrival were meticulously recorded. Even now they are in perfect physical shapes, with no rust, no losses of inscriptions or of organic parts.

I fully agree with you that the condition of koftgari on this yataghan is exceptionally good. But I have no reason to ascribe it to some nefarious action.

[TVV]

There are multiple yataghans from the 19th century that carry earlier dates to the 16th and 17th centuries. Why, I am not sure: maybe it was a reference to some date of importance to the owner or maybe it was the decorator's intent to add value to the blade. For example, in the Askeri Museum catalogue there is a 19th century yataghan with an Epirus hilt that has a very early date. There is another yataghan in the Military Museum in Sofia with an early date as well that otherwise looks very much like any other 19th century Balkan yataghan with a large walrus hilt.

Now, it is possible that those may be older blades that got rehilted. The issue is that earlier yataghans have slightly different blades, as one can see for example on captured arms from the second siege of Vienna - they tend to have a much wider blade and belly (apologies for the poor picture, but it gives a good idea of what I mean). The blade in this topic looks nothing like those 17th century examples, but looks very much like 19th century blades, as Marius already pointed out.

All this being said this is a nice Greek yataghan (based on the hilt) and it will be interesting to see what the rest of the inscription reads.

[TVV]

Here is a picture, courtesy of Tatiana Dianova, from the Turkish room in Dresden. The problem with the Dresden collection is that not all of it originates from items captures during the Second Siege of Vienna, however those two particular yataghans look quite early, and in some ways are closer to the 16th century examples (Suleyman's yataghans, Herzeg Khan's yataghan from the Furusiyya collection) than to 19th century examples.

[eftihis]

I agree that there is no way that the date corresponds to the date of manufacture of this yataghan! It looks like a mid 19th century piece, so the date must be there for anoter reason as discusssed before. There is also another proof of the later manufacture, and that is the koftgari itself on the other side! The representation of the turkish flag is with a crescent and a five rays star. Older than mid 19th century representation of the star had more rays!

[Zifir]

It's "yadigar-ı İstanbul" (A memento for Istanbul). There is also a very stylistic word after the date, but i could not read it.

Best,

[ariel]

Well, it changes a lot. A souvenir yataghan can carry any date the seller wishes:-)

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Zifir

It's "yadigar-ı İstanbul" (A memento for Istanbul). There is also a very stylistic word after the date, but i could not read it.

Best,

Great to see you here again Zifir, hope you are doing well.

Teodor

[Zifir]

Thank you Teodor, I am doing ok now.

Best,