Pair of silver-mounted French carriage pistols

NeilUK · 19th February 2020, 04:34 PM

Hi everyone, especially those who are more familiar with 18th century French gunsmiths than me. I recently bought this pair, dated about 1760, and very handsome they are too. The locks are signed Mardier Paris, at least that is the best I can make of it - the engraving is quite worn. The silver escutcheon is clearer - showing a crest of an open hand surmounted by a crown. I cannot find the name Mardier anywhere nor the crest. So any information that you forum colleagues can post will be gratefully received. Thank you.
Neil

NeilUK · 19th February 2020, 04:36 PM

and a better one of the crest

corrado26 · 19th February 2020, 06:10 PM

A foto of the gunmaker's signature would help a lot, because there is no "MARDIER" in France, but lots of "MERCIER"s and other names that could be possible.
corrado26

Will M · 20th February 2020, 10:52 AM

I found several families using this "hand", but this one stood out:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Lamont

NeilUK · 20th February 2020, 11:12 AM

Thanks to Corrado and Will. The Lamont hand certainly looks persuasive though it lacks the crown and the 'eagle' supporters at the side. So....
Here are 2 photos of the signature; these are the best of the 4. As I said the lock plates are fairly worn.
Neil

cornelistromp · 20th February 2020, 01:53 PM

Hi Neil,

extremely beautiful couple!

Mardier could also be the name of the owner, see for example page 10 of the attached publication of honored soldiers.the publication is from 1790, this corresponds nicely with the age of the couple.

the raised hand may indicate that the owner has taken some kind of a (military) oath. It doesn't have to be a coat of arms.

best
Jasper

https://books.google.nl/books?id=bvF...0paris&f=false

corrado26 · 20th February 2020, 02:10 PM

Après le "Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France" I think, the gunmaker was Jean Baptiste MAZELIER 1726-1760. It was Perre Lepage who was apprentice at him between 1726 and 1730.
corrado26

cornelistromp · 20th February 2020, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Après le "Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France" I think, the gunmaker was Jean Baptiste MAZELIER 1726-1760. It was Perre Lepage who was apprentice at him between 1726 and 1730.
corrado26

yes this is correct and makes more sense.
if I look closer, I see that the e matches and the r does not.

best,

mariusgmioc · 20th February 2020, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

yes this is correct and makes more sense.
if I look closer, I see that the e matches and the r does not.

best,

Exactly. The "r" in the middle was very strange and different from the one at the end.

Anyhow, excellent aquisition!

NeilUK · 21st February 2020, 12:27 AM

Thanks again to Corrado and to Jasper. Now that I know that there was a gunmaker named Mazelier (which I did not know before) I can see that name in the engraved signature. Even so Jasper's list shows that the name Mardier did exist, though not necessarily in the gunmaking trade.
I still think that the escutcheon depicts a family crest/arms. The displayed hand is clearly not enough by itself to identify the owner so the surmounting crown and supporting eagles (?) have to be taken into consideration.
Thanks to everyone for their comments.
Neil

19th February 2020, 04:34 PM	#1
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	Pair of silver-mounted French carriage pistols Hi everyone, especially those who are more familiar with 18th century French gunsmiths than me. I recently bought this pair, dated about 1760, and very handsome they are too. The locks are signed Mardier Paris, at least that is the best I can make of it - the engraving is quite worn. The silver escutcheon is clearer - showing a crest of an open hand surmounted by a crown. I cannot find the name Mardier anywhere nor the crest. So any information that you forum colleagues can post will be gratefully received. Thank you. Neil Attached Images

19th February 2020, 04:36 PM	#2
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	and a better one of the crest Attached Images

20th February 2020, 11:12 AM	#5
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	Thanks to Corrado and Will. The Lamont hand certainly looks persuasive though it lacks the crown and the 'eagle' supporters at the side. So.... Here are 2 photos of the signature; these are the best of the 4. As I said the lock plates are fairly worn. Neil Attached Images

20th February 2020, 01:53 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Hi Neil, extremely beautiful couple! Mardier could also be the name of the owner, see for example page 10 of the attached publication of honored soldiers.the publication is from 1790, this corresponds nicely with the age of the couple. the raised hand may indicate that the owner has taken some kind of a (military) oath. It doesn't have to be a coat of arms. best Jasper https://books.google.nl/books?id=bvF...0paris&f=false Last edited by cornelistromp; 20th February 2020 at 02:04 PM.

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19th February 2020, 06:10 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	A foto of the gunmaker's signature would help a lot, because there is no "MARDIER" in France, but lots of "MERCIER"s and other names that could be possible. corrado26

20th February 2020, 10:52 AM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I found several families using this "hand", but this one stood out:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Lamont

20th February 2020, 02:10 PM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Après le "Qui est Qui de l'Arme en France" I think, the gunmaker was Jean Baptiste MAZELIER 1726-1760. It was Perre Lepage who was apprentice at him between 1726 and 1730. corrado26

21st February 2020, 12:27 AM	#10
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	Thanks again to Corrado and to Jasper. Now that I know that there was a gunmaker named Mazelier (which I did not know before) I can see that name in the engraved signature. Even so Jasper's list shows that the name Mardier did exist, though not necessarily in the gunmaking trade. I still think that the escutcheon depicts a family crest/arms. The displayed hand is clearly not enough by itself to identify the owner so the surmounting crown and supporting eagles (?) have to be taken into consideration. Thanks to everyone for their comments. Neil