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#1 |
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 127
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Dear fellow collectors,
I hereby enclose pictures of my newly-commissioned Minangkabau Keris Naga blade (with and without warangan) that was forged in Madura. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 127
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Here are some pictures of its newly-carved sarung:
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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Nice art work and pamor Lawe Satukel but I won't call it a Minang blade....
Regards |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 205
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New artistic design but not my cup of tea.
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#5 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,097
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I would have to agree that despite drawing references from Minangkabau style naga keris, you can't really call this one and i don't believe anyone looking at it with any knowledge of that style would think it was. If it truly was you intention to own a keris that could be identified as Minang i don't believe this is it.
However, what you have had created by your Madurese smith is an attractive modern "art" keris that seems to have some decent craftsmanship behind it. Like Paul i would say this is not my "cuppa", but i can appreciate the work that went into it. |
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#6 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
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I like it.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 370
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Alexish, if this is what you asked them to make then I think they have done an admirable job. It may not fit with the classics but the garap (workmanship) on the blade looks good, the pamor well controlled and the sheath nicely carved. Enjoy your keris.
Drd |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,234
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If I am not completely mistaken, we have seen at least two Kerisses of this maker on forum before, both Malela blades. He surely is improving.
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#9 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
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For what it's worth, and only my point of view:
Garish is a word I might use to describe this end product. For me his effort begs the question; who designates what is the proper form of a traditional Keris? Should this be considered a product of the keris culture as is known at present? If it is: Where are the parameters? Where do we go from here? Have we discarded the Kraton dapurs' guidance for bling? When this happens are we, in fact, cheapening the end product culturally and spiritually? I have always equated the form of a Keris with Haiku; there are rules; if you don't meet them in the composition; then it is not Haiku. I evaluate the keris's I see within the same type of parameters. I feel that the new improvisations we see too often these days are not really improvements; rather they are distractions from the ideal. In essence: What actually constitutes a proper keris? Last edited by Rick; 4th March 2018 at 05:17 AM. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Rick, something like 35 years ago there was an exhibition in Solo of the work of the new keris making generation, who were known as the Anak-Anak ASKI.
The work on display was beautifully sculpted, it was immaculate in its execution. Superb garap. A very famous keris connoisseur was attending this exhibition in the same group of people that I was with. His name was Goh Tik Swan aka Harjonegoro. His comment was:- "Well, this is certainly art, but are these things keris?" |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 127
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Dear collectors,
Thanks for all your comments. Here are more detailed pictures of the keris hulu after staining. I also enclose pictures of the original antique ivory hulu that inspired this newly-made piece. |
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#12 |
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Here is how the warangka looks after staining. Compare with the original antique warangkas that inspired this newly-made piece.
Last edited by alexish; 4th March 2018 at 09:33 AM. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
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Here a comparison from the newly made keris with the old/antique one which was shown in a previous thread.
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#14 |
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Agree with Gustav, the smith is improving. But when I would have the choice I would take the antique example.
And can we call the new example a Minang keris? I think not. ![]() Not my cup of tea neither. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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In fact, I modelled my newly-made keris more closely to Jean's Minangkabau Naga Keris, as shown in the attached picture.
Actually, I deliberately asked the keris-maker to omit the Naga tail, and put a sogokan instead, as I felt that a sogokan would flow better with the malela-style fullers and the pamor Lawe Satukel. In fact, I see the pamor Lawe Satukel as a replacement for the Naga tail. |
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#16 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,097
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![]() Quote:
![]() You have taken different influence and created a bit of a mash-up here. Though artistic license has always been at play in keris design there have always been general guidelines to all the various known keris patterns that one is usually expected to adhere to. So we have the question of who decides when it comes to creating a new keris that can be accepted by the particular keris bearing culture which it is aimed at representing? Does it matter if it pleases the owner? But we also have the question of how such a personally designed keris that was created to specifically to owner preference rather than established "pakem" will be received if, down the line, it is introduced into the collecting market. I believe there may well be precedent for such things, keris that have been designed by eclectic people to suit very personal tastes. But from my perspective this does fall outside the perceived norms of the collecting world. Keris like this can then become enigmas to collectors down the line that some may find worthy and others not, especially if they pass into the marketplace without clear provenance. Hopefully if and/or when this keris leaves your custody it is not presented to collectors as a Minagkabau keris because it is not. I would hate to see a future where collectors have become confused about the authenticity of such a keris due to the lack of proper representation or the loss of basic knowledge of what such keris are actually supposed to look like. But it does seem to be a well crafted "art" keris. I would never personally commission such a keris, especially coming from outside the culture. It is not for me, a non-Sumatran, to determine or influence the nature of the specific keris design from any particular port of keris culture. But i do believe we all collect keris for different, sometimes subtle, reasons. My personal keris mission is about the study and preservation of the existing cultures, not forging new paths or foisting new design upon it. That would certainly not be my place. |
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#17 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I'm very sorry; I would have to classify this new piece as an 'Indonesian style dagger'.
For me it just does not fit the required parameters to be called 'Keris'. ![]() We own AKC recognized dogs; Rhodesian Ridgeback hounds; they are judged on a very strict set of standards. Some people these days are breeding Poodles (an AKC breed) with Golden Retrievers (another AKC recognized breed); they call the end product 'Golden Doodles'; they are not recognized as a AKC breed; therefore they are considered Mutts by the people who set the standards. So when you toss tradition out the window either with keris or purebred dogs I fear the end products achieve the same result. |
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#18 |
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Dear David and Rick,
Any opinion on the keris sarung? As you can see in the attached pictures, both the hulu and warangka were almost completely influenced and inspired by the design of old antique pieces, unlike the blade which had more innovation. For your reference, I also enclose pictures of an antique carved Minangkabau keris pendok that inspired my new piece. Last edited by alexish; 5th March 2018 at 01:57 AM. |
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#19 |
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Hello Alexish,
IMO the sarong shown in your post # 18 and which inspired your new piece is not at all an antique Minang sarong but a recent bone replica very popular since about 20-30 years and probably not even made in Sumatra. You can find plenty of similar krisses on Ebay or other commercial sites. Regards |
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#20 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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![]() Quote:
So this begs the questions: 1-What parameters MUST be met for a subject to be definitively dubbed "Keris"? 2-What elements exclude an object from qualifying as a Keris? |
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#21 | |
Keris forum moderator
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Location: Nova Scotia
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![]() Quote:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=defines+keris |
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#22 |
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Dear collectors,
Thanks for all your insightful comments. By the way, I was inspired to incorporate Malela-style fullers in my keris, because there actually exist old examples of Minangkabau kerises with Malela-style fullers. I enclose a picture of such an example. |
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#23 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
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#24 | |
Member
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Posts: 127
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#25 |
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2
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Nice blade....I think I like it
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#26 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
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Hi Bill. Welcome to the forum.
Are you a collector of keris? |
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