old sabre

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 08:11 PM

I wouldn´t say new ... Nevertheless this specific form was not discussed. I wonder if favourers of Abyssinian staff (Roanoa ?) could add something or post photos ...

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 08:54 PM

The quote is interesting. Thank you Ibrahiim !

Kubur · 24th October 2017, 09:33 PM

This sword is the illegitimate daughter of a shotel and a gile... I will say Afar, in between Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia...
a long dagger or a short sword, with a touch of a dharia but Yemen is next door...

Martin Lubojacky · 24th October 2017, 09:41 PM

Thank you Kubur. Afar gile is a light weapon in comparision with this (except of of the form of gile used by some Oromo tribes). This is probably not comming from Wollo or Somali regions. But frankly - somehow it is mystery even for Ethiopian antiquarians ...

roanoa · 25th October 2017, 03:47 PM

I have two similar swords in my collection. Both are quite heavy. Locally made and not re-worked from shortened blades. Fortes are missing from most of locally made shotels. Lengths of the blades (straight line from tip to handle) are 20" and 21.5". One of the pommels is typical, while the other one appears to be the head of a black powder cartridge, maybe a French Gras. Though these swords are Abyssinian, I have no idea which ethnic group they are related to. Galla? Oromo? I doubt they would be from the low lands and desert areas (Danakil, Afar).
Cheers.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th October 2017, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

I have two similar swords in my collection. Both are quite heavy. Locally made and not re-worked from shortened blades. Fortes are missing from most of locally made shotels. Lengths of the blades (straight line from tip to handle) are 20" and 21.5". One of the pommels is typical, while the other one appears to be the head of a black powder cartridge, maybe a French Gras. Though these swords are Abyssinian, I have no idea which ethnic group they are related to. Galla? Oromo? I doubt they would be from the low lands and desert areas (Danakil, Afar).
Cheers.

Very interesting to note that Fortes are missing on locally made blades...That would point to these daggers being local and probably spun off from the design of the Shotel. I was about to spout off about Danekil, Afar daggers though they are noted as lighter and a slightly different shape...I cannot make out the brass cartridge case type ~ maybe the French though there a few possibilities and any of the likely suspects would perhaps be used..

Jim McDougall · 25th October 2017, 11:38 PM

Excellent points! no forte on locally made blades! That one I completely forgot, and is a great indicator. It always amazes me that it seems so commonly held that native makers were producers of crudely made blades, at least to those relatively uninitiated in ethnographic weapons.

It is always interesting as well to see the notion that certain swords or types of weapons were restricted to certain tribes or groups, as well as to certain geographic regions. As Kubur has noted, influences and features of various weapons are often amalgamated into what frustrated collectors often regard as variants.
While obviously we can largely classify certain forms to the regions where they have propensity, however movements of ethic groups through diaphanous borders which are the thing of maps remind me of the sage axiom. .... "weapons have no geographic borders".

Roanoa, as always, your insight into the weaponry of these regions is great as you have been key in the study of this field for so many years.

Interesting use of what may be a cartridge when the use of coins have always seemed to dominate this place on hilts of these regions.

25th October 2017, 03:47 PM	#5
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	I have two similar swords in my collection. Both are quite heavy. Locally made and not re-worked from shortened blades. Fortes are missing from most of locally made shotels. Lengths of the blades (straight line from tip to handle) are 20" and 21.5". One of the pommels is typical, while the other one appears to be the head of a black powder cartridge, maybe a French Gras. Though these swords are Abyssinian, I have no idea which ethnic group they are related to. Galla? Oromo? I doubt they would be from the low lands and desert areas (Danakil, Afar). Cheers. Attached Images

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24th October 2017, 08:11 PM	#1
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	I wouldn´t say new ... Nevertheless this specific form was not discussed. I wonder if favourers of Abyssinian staff (Roanoa ?) could add something or post photos ...

24th October 2017, 08:54 PM	#2
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	The quote is interesting. Thank you Ibrahiim !

24th October 2017, 09:33 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	This sword is the illegitimate daughter of a shotel and a gile... I will say Afar, in between Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia... a long dagger or a short sword, with a touch of a dharia but Yemen is next door...

24th October 2017, 09:41 PM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	Thank you Kubur. Afar gile is a light weapon in comparision with this (except of of the form of gile used by some Oromo tribes). This is probably not comming from Wollo or Somali regions. But frankly - somehow it is mystery even for Ethiopian antiquarians ...

25th October 2017, 11:38 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Excellent points! no forte on locally made blades! That one I completely forgot, and is a great indicator. It always amazes me that it seems so commonly held that native makers were producers of crudely made blades, at least to those relatively uninitiated in ethnographic weapons. It is always interesting as well to see the notion that certain swords or types of weapons were restricted to certain tribes or groups, as well as to certain geographic regions. As Kubur has noted, influences and features of various weapons are often amalgamated into what frustrated collectors often regard as variants. While obviously we can largely classify certain forms to the regions where they have propensity, however movements of ethic groups through diaphanous borders which are the thing of maps remind me of the sage axiom. .... "weapons have no geographic borders". Roanoa, as always, your insight into the weaponry of these regions is great as you have been key in the study of this field for so many years. Interesting use of what may be a cartridge when the use of coins have always seemed to dominate this place on hilts of these regions.