Old Omani Saif

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

We have achieved more than was ever even imaginable over these past two decades here, and advanced knowledge on so many arms forms and topics.

Well Jim, I disagree on this one, or let's say not always: quoting Wikipedia all the time and using Google search for pictures is not research...

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Teodor. It seems it has been thought from the 1990s that these type hilts must have had some sort of silver cladding or decoration which has been invariably removed presumably for the silver or other decoration. It seems odd though that no example of antiquity exists in its full dress. The only examples of such dress are several regalia oriented examples which were mounted in more modern times in Oman.

I suppose that there are no real guidelines for the pairing of types of blades and hilts as there are many instances of for example, officers blades mounted in rather pedestrian other ranks hilts, but it seems unusual.

[ariel]

The book mentioned by Kubur is indeed relevant: it mentions Yemeni "wootz" repeatedly. Whether true or not, the possibility of local manufacture still exists.

Wootz blades were highly valued, and attaching one to the "tried and true" handle might have been a significant upgrade and a pride of the owner.

I have similar kattara, but regretfully not wootz-y.


Just like Teodor and Kubur, I am hesitatnt to accept the idea of a special " dancing sword"

Sword dances are known around the world, but nowhere with special swords.
Ritual dance is kind of magic and sacred. The weapon plays the same role as the dancer. It is a union of both. To imagine that pretty poor Omanis went into trouble and expense to acquire a bauble stretches my imagination. The pics Ibrahiim had shown depict them in pretty worn out clothes. If they did not buy new clothes for a celebratory dance, buying a new sword for a once-a-year occasion sounds dubious.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by ariel

The book mentioned by Kubur is indeed relevant: it mentions Yemeni "wootz" repeatedly. Whether true or not, the possibility of local manufacture still exists.

Wootz blades were highly valued, and attaching one to the "tried and true" handle might have been a significant upgrade and a pride of the owner.

Best proof for "Yemeni" wootz is the nafi'i dharia blades. Those come in varieties of patterns and I do not recall Indian or Persian examples that fit the bill. Local production is highly likely.

[ariel]

Can you show them?

[A.alnakkas]

Yes. And by pattern I meant the wootz pattern, not the shape of the blade! any Persian or Indian (or Ottoman) example with such a blade? I only found them with Arab fittings, so local production?

First example, crystalline wootz.

[A.alnakkas]

2nd example, a more open pattern. Belongs to my friend, who polished and etched it. Obviously the mounts are later, and these rhomboidal nafi'i blades are highly sought after and wootz is not as common as once thought. Some even have black wootz similar to one found on Persian blades.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Well Jim, I disagree on this one, or let's say not always: quoting Wikipedia all the time and using Google search for pictures is not research...

Hi Kubur,
Thanks for the reference to that title, always helpful to have these and I don't have that particular book.
Actually often I have certain book titles, but in the months of the year I am on the road, I don't have them with me.
In those times, I rely heavily on material found online, and I do use a Google search engine.

As many here are aware, I have researched arms and armor for quite a long time (most of my life), and in fact in the early days it was done with letters and book searches through stores or interlibrary loans and tons of photocopies. I still prefer books, but obviously, these days research is remarkably facilitated by the web!! especially when books or material is not readily available.

In researching, I have never relied on a single source for conclusive observations or assertions, and as any researcher or responsible author will say, you must cross check everything. Above all, one cannot use museum descriptions nor especially sales catalog entries with that caveat.

Wikipedia is what I consider a valuable resource as a quick reference, and a bench mark for further research or sources. From there, one can move to other references which can be either reliably considered or not, depending on the outcome of your cross check.

Pin Interest is somewhat frustrating at times as it leaves one with tempting photos, but little detail, however, if one pursues, often it is linked to either sites or other references.

When I commented on how much has been achieved here, I meant the interaction, discussion and sharing of experience and knowledge of the membership in learning together. There are many degrees and kinds of research methods, but overall I think most everyone here has offered contributions to achieving the advances I mentioned.

I personally chose to value each contribution and evaluate it much the way I do the material I find in books, papers or any resource, including Wikipedia and others.