Gustav's Discovery

[A. G. Maisey]

Here are some images that might help to demonstrate the bog that we try to wade through when we begin to use Javanese and Indonesian books as reliable sources of information.
The important thing to remember is this:- keris knowledge is in fact knowledge of keris belief.

The "facts" of anything are only facts for the people who accept any particular source of knowledge, be it a text, or a person, as a reliable source.

There is no "standard".

Books and other printed or written sources can be useful to somebody who already has a foundation gained from personal, face to face instruction by an acknowledged authority, but without this foundation it becomes more than a little bit difficult to know if something can be accepted or not, and if it is accepted, that acceptance depends upon the belief in the person who provided the foundation.

With things Javanese and Indonesian, it is probably not the wisest position to take to accept anything as the ultimate truth.


I've posted a lot of images here, the numbers indicate the sources:-

1-- Koesni, 'Pakem Pengetahuan Tentang Keris'
2-- Ki Darmosoegito, 'Bab Dhuwung'
3-- Rt. Waluyodipuro, 'Dhuwung'
4-- S.Lumintu, 'Ilmu Keris'
5-- B. Harsrinuksmo, 'Ensiklopedi Keris'
6-- as for 5
7--as for 5
8-- B. Harsrinuksmo, 'Dapur Keris'
9-- as for 8
10-- as for 8
11-- as for 8


My personal position is that my "keris knowledge" in the sense of present day Central Javanese "knowledge" is based upon what I have personally gained from the people I know and have known in Central Jawa. I do not take much notice of what is printed in books about keris. I have seen very well known and respected authors come to my own teachers seeking information, I have seen and heard what they were given, I have heard my teachers' remarks when they left, I have seen what these respected authors did to the information they were given.

I am not recommending that any of the information in the accompanying images be regarded as "correct", whatever that may mean, my purpose in providing these images is try to provide some sort of understanding of exactly what Javanese "knowledge" of keris is like.

The text is in Javanese and Indonesian, if you can't work out what it means, ask me. I don't feel inclined to translate everything on all pages.

What I've posted is just a sample. I've got a lot, I mean a real lot of books, manuscripts, articles & etc & etc & etc about this sort of stuff, several big bookcases, more than one shoulder high filing cabinet. The more you read the more confused and contradictory it becomes.

[A. G. Maisey]

In respect of the ri pandan and the thingil.

Before you can understand what anybody is saying, you need to understand the language they are using.

Here the language is Javanese.

Ri pandan means "pandan thorn", some pandan plants have thorns along the sides of the leaves, those thorns are hooked, so if you are told that something is like a pandan thorn, you need to look for a hooked thorn.

In the context of a keris, that hooked thorn can either stand alone, or it can be a part of the ron dha, but wherever it is, it is thorn-like and it is hooked.

"Thingil" means "something small that stands above its surroundings".

In the context of the keris, this can be something that is an isolated element, or it can be the small central spike in the cup of the ron dha. Both uses are correct, because in both cases we are talking about something small that projects above the surroundings.

Once you have even a basic understanding of Javanese it is really not so difficult to understand what is being said insofar as keris terminology is concerned.

I think I might have answered your query David?