A Kindjal or a Qamas?

sabertasche · 24th February 2006, 07:38 AM

Hi all, I would welcome your thoughts on this blade. The basics first. Is it a kindjal or a qamas? This blade is only 16.5 cm long, overall length is 26 cm. Blade width is 2.3 cm. The blade is blued in the blood groves (poor terminology - what is the correct term?). There is also some silver inlay which I hope someone can translate for me.

My thoughts are that this is a boys kindjal, from the Balkans, circa 1900. I don't see too many of these in Canada and this is the smallest one I've seen. I didn't get a deal on it but the quality is there and it was too cute to pass up

.

Enjoy and I look fwrd to you comments,

Greg

Yannis · 24th February 2006, 11:40 AM

The right word for grove is fuller (I learn english in this forum

). I don’t think that it is a balkan qama. It looks more eastern to me. If the hilt of knife is small it could be made for a child. Or it could be from India (not this one). I have never hold a tulvar with normal hilt.

Dom · 24th February 2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannis

..snip.. It looks more eastern to me...snip..

eastern why not, but not arabic

once more the 2 words engraved aren't arabic language
old turkish ? farsi ?

any way, if translated in latin letters that give;
"rala fichra, or rala michra"

according with a "point" missed or not

à +

Dom

sabertasche · 25th February 2006, 09:03 PM

Hi guys, still trying to get the forums' interpretation as to what this is, as well as a translation of the writing. Is this a standard size or is it a boys kindjal?

I'm hoping for:
1.Country of origin
2. What it is
3. Translation of the blade inscription
4. Age
5. Cultural context

Any help is welcome

Greg

Rivkin · 26th February 2006, 12:07 AM

I am no specialist, especially when it comes to Iran, but imho it's Iran, 19th century, more on a boys' size scale. Provinse most likely Fars or north, Azerbajan ??.

sabertasche · 9th March 2006, 08:05 AM

Just thought I's ask again if someone can translate this Kindjal blade for me.

Thanks,

Greg

ham · 9th March 2006, 08:19 AM

This is an Ottoman boys dagger from the Trabzon area, it dates c. 1900-1920.
The type tends to be of very good, occasionally excellent, workmanship.
The inscription on the blade is probably the boy's name but it isn't quite clear. If you can post another image perhaps it can be read more easily.

Kama is what a Turk would call this dagger, kindjal is really a Russian word found in most texts but the Caucasian languages each render the word "dagger," and numerous varieties thereof, in different manners- Rivkin possibly can say more on this subject. I have run across at least 6 different terms for what we would simply call a "kindjal" in both Georgian and Adiga.

The term "fuller" is the correct one for forged-in grooves, as they are produced with a fuller or fullering tool.

Nice example, the mounts will no doubt clean to reveal an alloyed silver
common in Anatolia in the latter Ottoman period.

Ham

Rivkin · 11th March 2006, 07:38 AM

I am no linguist, but imho:
There are probably literally hundred or so names for kindjals/short swords/long knives in Caucasus. Currenty there are probably two that are most common - kindjal, since russian remain lingua franka for the region, and qama, since the latter one is derived from the persian(?) name for this weapon.
There is however some misunderstanding with vainakh, where K'ama means one of the form of " nation" - "nohchi k'am" chechen nation.

Other than that you should be ok with whatever you use - Kama or Kinzhal.

24th February 2006, 07:38 AM	#1
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	A Kindjal or a Qamas? Hi all, I would welcome your thoughts on this blade. The basics first. Is it a kindjal or a qamas? This blade is only 16.5 cm long, overall length is 26 cm. Blade width is 2.3 cm. The blade is blued in the blood groves (poor terminology - what is the correct term?). There is also some silver inlay which I hope someone can translate for me. My thoughts are that this is a boys kindjal, from the Balkans, circa 1900. I don't see too many of these in Canada and this is the smallest one I've seen. I didn't get a deal on it but the quality is there and it was too cute to pass up . Enjoy and I look fwrd to you comments, Greg Attached Images Last edited by sabertasche; 24th February 2006 at 08:34 AM.

25th February 2006, 09:03 PM	#4
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Help Needed Hi guys, still trying to get the forums' interpretation as to what this is, as well as a translation of the writing. Is this a standard size or is it a boys kindjal? I'm hoping for: 1.Country of origin 2. What it is 3. Translation of the blade inscription 4. Age 5. Cultural context Any help is welcome Greg

9th March 2006, 08:05 AM	#6
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Translation Needed Just thought I's ask again if someone can translate this Kindjal blade for me. Thanks, Greg

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24th February 2006, 11:40 AM	#2
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	The right word for grove is fuller (I learn english in this forum ). I don’t think that it is a balkan qama. It looks more eastern to me. If the hilt of knife is small it could be made for a child. Or it could be from India (not this one). I have never hold a tulvar with normal hilt.

26th February 2006, 12:07 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I am no specialist, especially when it comes to Iran, but imho it's Iran, 19th century, more on a boys' size scale. Provinse most likely Fars or north, Azerbajan ??.

9th March 2006, 08:19 AM	#7
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	This is an Ottoman boys dagger from the Trabzon area, it dates c. 1900-1920. The type tends to be of very good, occasionally excellent, workmanship. The inscription on the blade is probably the boy's name but it isn't quite clear. If you can post another image perhaps it can be read more easily. Kama is what a Turk would call this dagger, kindjal is really a Russian word found in most texts but the Caucasian languages each render the word "dagger," and numerous varieties thereof, in different manners- Rivkin possibly can say more on this subject. I have run across at least 6 different terms for what we would simply call a "kindjal" in both Georgian and Adiga. The term "fuller" is the correct one for forged-in grooves, as they are produced with a fuller or fullering tool. Nice example, the mounts will no doubt clean to reveal an alloyed silver common in Anatolia in the latter Ottoman period. Ham

11th March 2006, 07:38 AM	#8
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I am no linguist, but imho: There are probably literally hundred or so names for kindjals/short swords/long knives in Caucasus. Currenty there are probably two that are most common - kindjal, since russian remain lingua franka for the region, and qama, since the latter one is derived from the persian(?) name for this weapon. There is however some misunderstanding with vainakh, where K'ama means one of the form of " nation" - "nohchi k'am" chechen nation. Other than that you should be ok with whatever you use - Kama or Kinzhal.