Unusual and atypical Javanese keris wrongko/warangka

Jean · 14th June 2017, 07:54 PM

Thank you Alan and sorry to be just a collector... I recently discussed about a very similar piece to yours with another collector and this is why I was particularly interested about its origin.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 14th June 2017, 10:10 PM

Sorry to be a collector Jean?

Why?

I was a collector for a very long time, I guess I still am, its just that I cannot really justify myself as a collector of keris these days.

Why?

Because the questions that interest me in respect of the keris cannot be answered by increase of my already substantial collection. If my questioning is directed more towards the keris itself and the spiritual nature of the keris, will any of my questions be answered by details associated with the wrongko? I don't think so.

The Javanese attitude in respect of the wrongko is this:- it is feminine in nature, and when used by a keris to shield the blade, it is no more important than is a sarung used to shield a man's lower body. It is a thing that has no life, nor meaning by itself, just as is the case with a sarung, or a woman, it only has any meaning if it serves the keris, the same as a sarung or a woman only has meaning if they serve a man.

Yes, I understand full well that this is not a very popular attitude these days, and I am not promoting this attitude, I am merely attempting to place understanding of the wrongko into its realistic cultural position. Is there any possibility for anybody to gain an understanding of the keris if they are not able to understand it in similar terms to the people for whom it is a part of existence?

There is no doubt that a wrongko has a social function, and if we look at a particular wrongko form in a societal context it can tell us something about the social situation where that particular wrongko may be able to be used, or was used, but that still does not raise the importance of the wrongko above the function of being a mere cover for the keris.

As I said previously:- I've moved on.

Its probably a bit like any educational involvement, we finish one stage of our education and we think we've got a pretty good handle on things. Junior school, senior school, university, several degrees. Yep. No more secrets. But the morning after we hang the Phd. on the wall we wake up and find that in reality we know nothing at all, we've just been jumping through hoops to display our acquired skills. Maybe at that point we begin to learn something of value.

rasdan · 15th June 2017, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Its probably a bit like any educational involvement, we finish one stage of our education and we think we've got a pretty good handle on things. Junior school, senior school, university, several degrees. Yep. No more secrets. But the morning after we hang the Phd. on the wall we wake up and find that in reality we know nothing at all, we've just been jumping through hoops to display our acquired skills. Maybe at that point we begin to learn something of value.

I couldn't agree more with this..

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14th June 2017, 07:54 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Alan and sorry to be just a collector... I recently discussed about a very similar piece to yours with another collector and this is why I was particularly interested about its origin. Regards

14th June 2017, 10:10 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Sorry to be a collector Jean? Why? I was a collector for a very long time, I guess I still am, its just that I cannot really justify myself as a collector of keris these days. Why? Because the questions that interest me in respect of the keris cannot be answered by increase of my already substantial collection. If my questioning is directed more towards the keris itself and the spiritual nature of the keris, will any of my questions be answered by details associated with the wrongko? I don't think so. The Javanese attitude in respect of the wrongko is this:- it is feminine in nature, and when used by a keris to shield the blade, it is no more important than is a sarung used to shield a man's lower body. It is a thing that has no life, nor meaning by itself, just as is the case with a sarung, or a woman, it only has any meaning if it serves the keris, the same as a sarung or a woman only has meaning if they serve a man. Yes, I understand full well that this is not a very popular attitude these days, and I am not promoting this attitude, I am merely attempting to place understanding of the wrongko into its realistic cultural position. Is there any possibility for anybody to gain an understanding of the keris if they are not able to understand it in similar terms to the people for whom it is a part of existence? There is no doubt that a wrongko has a social function, and if we look at a particular wrongko form in a societal context it can tell us something about the social situation where that particular wrongko may be able to be used, or was used, but that still does not raise the importance of the wrongko above the function of being a mere cover for the keris. As I said previously:- I've moved on. Its probably a bit like any educational involvement, we finish one stage of our education and we think we've got a pretty good handle on things. Junior school, senior school, university, several degrees. Yep. No more secrets. But the morning after we hang the Phd. on the wall we wake up and find that in reality we know nothing at all, we've just been jumping through hoops to display our acquired skills. Maybe at that point we begin to learn something of value.