New Moro Kris Sheaths and handles for Comments

[alexish]

My personal own observation based on availability of old antique Moro krises for sale or on auction, is that Maranao is the most common, followed by Maguidanao and then Sulu. Do you guys have similar observations?

[David]

Originally Posted by alexish

My personal own observation based on availability of old antique Moro krises for sale or on auction, is that Maranao is the most common, followed by Maguidanao and then Sulu. Do you guys have similar observations?

My own personal observation is that the vast majority of antique Moro kris for sale or on auction do not make any tribal distinctions at all in their descriptions and that when they do they are not always accurate.

[Battara]

I agree with David. In fact, there are many other examples in people's collections that are not even seen or accounted for. So no one knows for sure.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by alexish

My personal own observation based on availability of old antique Moro krises for sale or on auction, is that Maranao is the most common, followed by Maguidanao and then Sulu. Do you guys have similar observations?

What we see online is not a fair representation of the Moro kris that have been created over the last several hundred years.

The kris from the Sulu Archipelago are likely to be under represented because of a relative lack of contact and trade between U.S. and other Western groups with the Sulu Moros compared with the Moro groups based on Mindanao. In particular, US servicemen and others were interacting with relatively friendly Moro groups on Mindanao (notably those Maguindanao controlled by Datu Piang around Reina Regente) in the early 1900s, and Col. Pershing established reasonable relations with Maranao groups of the Lake Lanao region following some punitive expeditions in the early 1900s.

The Moro groups of the smaller Sulu Archipelago islands were more troublesome and led to several major armed conflicts, with many ongoing skirmishes. While some weapons were confiscated in these conflicts, the opportunity to obtain Sulu kris via trade or barter was less than among the Mindanao groups. What we do see online are more barung than kris coming from the Sulu areas, and this may have reflected a preference by the Sulu groups for the barung, but, again, such observations need to be interpreted cautiously.

It's an interesting question you raise but one that cannot be answered with any confidence based on the relative numbers of weapons showing up online.

Ian.

[alexish]

For comparison, I also enclose pictures of a new kris sheath that I comissioned in Malaysia about 10 years ago.

[Ian]

Alexish:

These pics are too small to make out any of the details. Can you post them again in larger format. Perhaps a new thread might be appropriate for that discussion.

Ian.

[alexish]

I hereby enclose bigger images of the kris sheath.

[Battara]

To me the blade looks older (late 19th - early 20th century?) than everything else.

[Sajen]

Agree with Jose, old/antique blade with recent fittings.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

To me the blade looks older (late 19th - early 20th century?) than everything else.

Well yes, i believe Alexish made that clear in post #38. This is new dress that he commissioned for this old blade 10 years ago. He does not say where or from whom he commissioned it from. If an Indonesian craftsman made this then the question might be does it look like authentic Moro work? Are the motifs correct for what we know as okir or does it miss the mark as so much dress crafted outside the original culture of redressed blades do?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Well yes, i believe Alexish made that clear in post #38. This is new dress that he commissioned for this old blade 10 years ago. He does not say where or from whom he commissioned it from. If an Indonesian craftsman made this then the question might be does it look like authentic Moro work? Are the motifs correct for what we know as okir or does it miss the mark as so much dress crafted outside the original culture of redressed blades do?

Hello David,

yes, you are correct! Look like Adnis pictures! The fittings don't look like old Moro work, sorry.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Originally Posted by David

... If an Indonesian craftsman made this then the question might be does it look like authentic Moro work? Are the motifs correct for what we know as okir or does it miss the mark as so much dress crafted outside the original culture of redressed blades do?

David,

In response to your questions, I think we can say:

NO--this does not look like authentic Moro work, and
NO--the motifs are mostly not correct for Moro okir, and
YES--it largely misses the mark of what a redressed blade would look like in the original culture.

My main concerns are that these pieces tend to be overly embellished and the proportions of various features are different, thereby losing touch with much of the form and simplicity of the original designs and missing the mark. These interpretations are obviously based on the originals that alexish has shown, but they are artists' interpretations from outside the culture and suffer accordingly. Again, these are well carved and one can admire the skill in their crafting.

Ian.

Ian