A Spanish rapier Early 17TH century

[cornelistromp]

spherical pommels can be found in all ages in all countries, even in the Middle Ages.
However, at the time of the rapier of Jean Luc late 16th century early 17th century, this pommel was very fashionable in the Netherlands on Rapiers in Art. This in contrast to Italy where the heydays had already passed. (in the early - mid 16th century)

F/M the inscription is of low quality (btw the blade is not) and Francisco is spelled in the German language (phonetically) with a Z. (Franz is a German name)

for this reason my contention is that this inscription is probably done a bit later and has not been done by the blade maker.
perhaps on a export-blade from a marketing perspective.

The grid pattern was popular in the last quarter of the 16th century and probably originated from Styria. see dussages of post #7

for comparison, an Attachement of the same type of rapier.

best,
jasper

[Jim McDougall]

Jasper,
I am very glad to have you back on this, and thank you so much for the elucidation on the issues we are observing and discussing here. I clearly very much agree on the blade and inscription, which has been one of my primary concerns since the outset. The blade as you note is of good quality and age, and the inscription was as you suggest probably added in German context using this much favored makers name to enhance value in trade.
Unfortunately the inscriber, though carefully following the standard conventions of wording spaced by the 'x's, was not very proficient in lettering and their placement. It would seem that a style or fashion hilt would still appeal to the extremely traditional Spaniard, who generally held stubbornly to the venerable forms of earlier times. Perhaps this may account for an older hilt or blade or both filtering through trade entrepots destined for Spanish Netherlands and the German application of the famed name of Francisco Ruiz?

It seems that the observation placed by Ariel was most astutely placed, as in all honesty, I had not even thought of Styria. Your illustration clearly shows this grid pattern compellingly in that context .

Can you offer thoughts on the curious mark at the forte , which looks like a crescent?

All best regards
Jim

[Cerjak]

Whoa!
Jasper this picture is very important for me, Thank you for the gift!
How many peoples assist you in your research department?
What I could say is, that both hilts have been made by same hands.
Could you tell me from where you found this sword ?
Thank you very much!
Jean-Luc

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Jasper,


Can you offer thoughts on the curious mark at the forte , which looks like a crescent?

All best regards
Jim

the half-moon (crescent) single or double appeared frequently on the ricasso or on the middle of the blade, at blades from Toledo in the 16thC and 17thC.
Also Spanish marks like this were copied in production centers such as Solingen.
In the late 16th century there was largely and lively trade in weapon parts, such as blades. It is impossible to say whether this is a Toledo export blade or a German blade.Also it is difficult to determine where the rapier is put together.

It is, however, with probability, to say that the inscription is applied later on
given the poor Quality of it.

best,
jasper

[fernando]

Dear Jim,
I have been in contact with Germán Dueñas Beraiz, head curator of the arms section of the Army Museum of Toledo, author of several books on early weaponry.
Here is what he says about the smiths marks, the crowns and the half moon:

... La única marca para reconocer a un espadero del rey era la inscripción que colocaban en los cantos del recazo ESPADERO/ DELREY.
Las coronas en los punzones de espaderos toledanos son muy comunes, y en principio no hemos documentado que tengan ningún significado especial.
Por otra parte Palomares es una fuente muy interesante pero poco fiable a la hora de atribuir marcas, lugares de fabricación o nombres de espaderos, tal y como señalo en un artículo escrito por mi hace unos años dedicado a Palomares en la revista Gladius.
La media luna aparece en algunas hojas españolas, pero sin vinculación con marcas de espadero ni de ciudad.
De hecho Juan Martín no existió como espadero, refiriéndose Palomares a otro espadero cuya firma interpreta erróneamente, concrétamente a Juan Martínez, que por cierto si fue espadero del rey ...

And in case you won't bother translating, here is a lousy version:

The only mark to identify an espadero del rey was the inscription they applied in the edges of the ricasso ESPADERO/DEL REY.
The crowns in the marks of Toledan sword smiths are rather common and in principle we have no evidence of those having a special meaning.
On the other had, Palomares is a very interesting source but not so reliable, in what touches marks, production places or sord smiths names, as i point out in a article published a few years go in the Gladius review.
The haf moon appears in some Spanish blades, but with no direct relation with smiths marks or cities.
In fact Juan Martin has not existed as a sword smith, Palomares referring to another smith whose name he wrongly interpreter, in concrete to Juan Martinez, whom has indeed been an espadero del rey.

[fernando]

If you care for some examples ... the first at the Metropolitan, the second in the Real Armeria.

.