Zanzibari (?) Saif for Comment

[ariel]

I still have difficulty to believe that 19 century Omanis, a definitely not rich people, had separate swords for battle and for dancing. Why couldn't they dance with their battle swords, a distinctly non-traumatic ( for the blade) activity?
Sword dances were ubiquitous in many societies ( Turks, Caucasians, Cossacks) . Nowhere were special "dancing swords" present.

Regulation European swords is a different kettle of fish: various patterns were designed for different uniforms, and this was dictated by the rank. Simple soldiers ( in a crude way approximate to tribal warriors) had one sword only, if that.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

I still have difficulty to believe that 19 century Omanis, a definitely not rich people, had separate swords for battle and for dancing. Why couldn't they dance with their battle swords, a distinctly non-traumatic ( for the blade) activity?
Sword dances were ubiquitous in many societies ( Turks, Caucasians, Cossacks) . Nowhere were special "dancing swords" present.

Regulation European swords is a different kettle of fish: various patterns were designed for different uniforms, and this was dictated by the rank. Simple soldiers ( in a crude way approximate to tribal warriors) had one sword only, if that.

I see what Ariel is saying here, and he makes a very good point. It is well noted that dances involving swords were certainly present in many cultures and nationalities, and it does beg the question, 'why a separate sword to accommodate a particular ceremony?'.

Actually, at the outset of these types of rituals brandishing swords they probably were once part of either a kind of hyping up psychologically prior to battle or in many cases, traditional recalling of great battles and heritage in same. In the former, of course actual battle weapons were likely used where in the latter case, often in more modern times swords had become traditional accoutrements rather than serviceable weapons. These typcally of course took the place of the older, actual combat arms.
In todays Highland sword dance, the traditional basket hilts are simply made in the style of the old forms, but certainly not battle swords.

If I recall correctly from the many discussions we have had on this topic, the traditional pageantry known as the Funoon involves a sword ceremony where these distinctly Omani style conical hilted weapons are used.
The desired effects of many swordsmen in an impressive drill in unison calls for not only the flashing of highly polished blades, but the vibrato whirring sound of these very flexible blades held and purposely shaken for that sound. The aperture in the pommels of these were probably for colorful festoons as well as wrist attachment.

The average Omani would not only have not had battle swords, but not the dance swords either, in fact would not have had weapons at all in most cases other than perhaps heirlooms or a dagger.
These dance swords were produced specifically for these events at some point in the 18th century as the al Bussaidi dynasty developed not only celebratory regalia but promoted spectacular traditional events.

The style of these swords heralded the familiar highly embellished hilts of the swaggering merchants and persons of notoriety, which indeed were held in high esteem and part of the ruling and powerful elite. Their swords were however, most often fitted with high quality blades from many sources as well as heirloom and presentation instances. The dance versions of their swords were simply made in recognition of these familiar swords but with blades purposed for effect rather than combative use.

The well known battle swords of their own distinct form with the 'winged' guard, but cylindrical hilt and peaked dome pommel, were primarily from the interior of Oman, Nizwa, where the Ibathi's did maintain armed forces.
The Omani coastal regions, Muscat, were focused primarily on trade and commercial diplomacy.

Regarding the European regulation sword analogy, the idea was simply to illustrate that swords of specific form were often for dress, while more suitable and sturdier examples used by the same officer for battle. As officers not only could afford such selection, they were also given the latitude to do so.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I see what Ariel is saying here, and he makes a very good point. It is well noted that dances involving swords were certainly present in many cultures and nationalities, and it does beg the question, 'why a separate sword to accommodate a particular ceremony?'.

Actually, at the outset of these types of rituals brandishing swords they probably were once part of either a kind of hyping up psychologically prior to battle or in many cases, traditional recalling of great battles and heritage in same. In the former, of course actual battle weapons were likely used where in the latter case, often in more modern times swords had become traditional accoutrements rather than serviceable weapons. These typcally of course took the place of the older, actual combat arms.
In todays Highland sword dance, the traditional basket hilts are simply made in the style of the old forms, but certainly not battle swords.

If I recall correctly from the many discussions we have had on this topic, the traditional pageantry known as the Funoon involves a sword ceremony where these distinctly Omani style conical hilted weapons are used.
The desired effects of many swordsmen in an impressive drill in unison calls for not only the flashing of highly polished blades, but the vibrato whirring sound of these very flexible blades held and purposely shaken for that sound. The aperture in the pommels of these were probably for colorful festoons as well as wrist attachment.

The average Omani would not only have not had battle swords, but not the dance swords either, in fact would not have had weapons at all in most cases other than perhaps heirlooms or a dagger.
These dance swords were produced specifically for these events at some point in the 18th century as the al Bussaidi dynasty developed not only celebratory regalia but promoted spectacular traditional events.

The style of these swords heralded the familiar highly embellished hilts of the swaggering merchants and persons of notoriety, which indeed were held in high esteem and part of the ruling and powerful elite. Their swords were however, most often fitted with high quality blades from many sources as well as heirloom and presentation instances. The dance versions of their swords were simply made in recognition of these familiar swords but with blades purposed for effect rather than combative use.

The well known battle swords of their own distinct form with the 'winged' guard, but cylindrical hilt and peaked dome pommel, were primarily from the interior of Oman, Nizwa, where the Ibathi's did maintain armed forces.
The Omani coastal regions, Muscat, were focused primarily on trade and commercial diplomacy.

Regarding the European regulation sword analogy, the idea was simply to illustrate that swords of specific form were often for dress, while more suitable and sturdier examples used by the same officer for battle. As officers not only could afford such selection, they were also given the latitude to do so.

Perfectly explained Jim to which I would add; A huge production campaign was needed to get the nation behind the Sultan and expensive battle swords being out of the question people turned to a cheap but effective model.. The Dancing Sword. This was done mainly in the reign of The Sultan of Zanzibar or Saaid The Great. It is the reason that the Omani contingent carried these swords...The Mangas of Zanzibar. The net effect however was to feed back to Oman proper the habit of using this as the Pageantry Sword..Essentially it can be used in a number of distinct areas..
1. Religious ...At both Eids.
2. Social Events....At Weddings.
3. Political gatherings...Nothing is so rousing as thousands of tribals shimmering these swords in appreciation of a leader..or VIP.
4. Salutations to the ruler...All tribal infantry / Soldiers in the Sultans guards carried these as saluting or marching past the Ruler in salute. It was a very common occurrence.
5. Tradition. To enact a large section of dances from the Funoon...This was how information was passed down the ages as people could not read or write... The Traditions are a backbone component of music, poetry and dance in a specific style of Omani history story telling.

Essentially why this sword happened was because of the drive behind it as a saluting sword in honour of The Sultan.( Saiid The Great) It was never intended as a fighting weapon. Basically for the masses it was generally a cheap saluting accoutrement. And it still is.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

I still have difficulty to believe that 19 century Omanis, a definitely not rich people, had separate swords for battle and for dancing. Why couldn't they dance with their battle swords, a distinctly non-traumatic ( for the blade) activity?
Sword dances were ubiquitous in many societies ( Turks, Caucasians, Cossacks) . Nowhere were special "dancing swords" present.

Regulation European swords is a different kettle of fish: various patterns were designed for different uniforms, and this was dictated by the rank. Simple soldiers ( in a crude way approximate to tribal warriors) had one sword only, if that.

The Sayf Yamaani was an expensive to produce and very dangerous to throw around at pageants weapon..The Dancing sword however, did inherit components from it like the Terrs Shield...Razor sharp edges ...a flat spatulate tip.....a round tip...It was designed as a non lethal, cheap pageantry sword uniting the masses behind the Sultan.

[ariel]

Well, as Alice would say, curiosier and curiosier...
I hear your points, but I am still puzzled.
Perhaps , in the 19 century Oman was an oasis of tranquility, but the neighboring areas were not. In what is now Saudi Arabia clans clashed all the time, and swords were as embedded in the daily life as kaffiyas. In Yemen, jambiyas are as needed for male attire as pants., and until recently their blades were of fighting quality. Elgood wrote that Hungarian blades were highly prized there in part for their ability to emit sounds during dancing; a hint that dancing was performed with real battle swords.
No Khevsur, Georgian or Zeibek had a special dancing sword, and they danced a lot.

But you must have access to information that is not available to the foreigners...... be it as it may.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, as Alice would say, curiosier and curiosier...
I hear your points, but I am still puzzled.
Perhaps , in the 19 century Oman was an oasis of tranquility, but the neighboring areas were not. In what is now Saudi Arabia clans clashed all the time, and swords were as embedded in the daily life as kaffiyas. In Yemen, jambiyas are as needed for male attire as pants., and until recently their blades were of fighting quality. Elgood wrote that Hungarian blades were highly prized there in part for their ability to emit sounds during dancing; a hint that dancing was performed with real battle swords.
No Khevsur, Georgian or Zeibek had a special dancing sword, and they danced a lot.

But you must have access to information that is not available to the foreigners...... be it as it may.

IN THE 19TH C. Oman apart from a very narrow window of prosperity was very poor..No oil in those days...No schools, clinics, hospitals, roads or anything else ...until about 1970.
Black slaves in irons were still obtainable here in Buraimi in 1960.

People somewhat underestimate the situation and tend to sideline the evidence; for example of the Funoon ... I don't blame you however, since it is very much a touch of Alice...In fact the best way to consider the different Genre is as a series of Pantomimes. Education didn't exist..reading and writing was about next to nothing...so the traditions were passed down in Poetry, Dance, Singing and those performances involving the flexible dancing sword. Funoon essentially means The Traditions.

...I indicate above the different functions in which this accoutrement was involved and although some swords were richly adorned in the case of VIPs items its primary use was as explained and it never saw a battle ..except from the viewpoint as waving it in support of the leader..or in its role in the mock fight

When needed Oman had a classic battle Sword... The Sayf Yamaani... plus spears, daggers and the usual fire arms of the day.

[Jim McDougall]

Although it seems that we are digressing from the original post in this thread, a Zanzibar nimcha with very thin brass mounts, the subject of the use of swords in combat vs, in pageantry still remains on point. The examples and instances included by way of analogy are of other forms, but the principle still applies.

The subject of Arabian use and preference of Hungarian blades is well noted, and I have owned and handled Arabian sabers with these blades. While regarded as Hungarian, these blades were typically Solingen or Styrian made (Ostrowski, "The Polish Saber") and the ones I have handled were not particularly flexible, certainly not in the degree required in the Omani dance.
However, I very much agree that actual battle swords were certainly used in dancing or pre combat fervor in very live situations, and probably in a celebratory manner post combat. This of course was probably true in other events using actual battle swords in other nationalities and cultures outside the Omani sphere, in fact I had noted this was likely the origin of the Omani dance. In seems that this performance was altered by producing even more flexible blades in order to enhance the effects desired.

One of the key factors sought in actual combat blades is flexibility, in fact many European blades were tested to see if they could be bent far out of shape and return to original shape . This is essential in blades for combat use as a rigid blade will be subject to breaking in extreme impact and shock.
However, in extremes such as with the Omani dance versions, these blades are flimsy as opposed to flexible, and would be of little use in combat.

What is being confused is the many examples of the conical hilt Omani swords mounted with substantial European and other blades. These were as often explained, worn by individuals of standing and influence in the Omani sphere, particularly merchants and slavers, who were not involved in these performances any more than in any military or combative affairs. These were entirely civil or in effect court type swords despite fully serviceable blades, and very much status oriented, rather than combat ready .

The numbers of these Omani swords produced in more recent times for commercial purposes have further clouded the issue as these have become interpolated with actual earlier examples worn as status symbols in these civil circumstances. It seems these began to circulate around 20 years ago as when I obtained one, they were still rarely seen.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ras al Khaimah began to churn them out about 30 years ago. In the case of Omani Souks they more or less exploded into life after 1970 making them very common from then. To allow the common man access to these swords they were produced in great numbers especially for Zanzibari Omanis (Mangas) some time in the mid 19th C.

In Oman proper these swords were worked by wandering gypsies called Zutoot...but since the Zutoot were absorbed into Omani society in the early 70s; that dwindled . A Factory exists making vast numbers in Salalah..The emphasis is on cheap mass production for the masses even today. The same system exists today as it did when they were invented likely in the first quarter of the 19th C by the Ruler. This also points to a style etched into society where the original form is rigidly followed as it enters the well respected Funun Traditional genre.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

These were as often explained, worn by individuals of standing and influence in the Omani sphere, particularly merchants and slavers, who were not involved ... in any military or combative affairs. These were entirely civil or in effect court type swords despite fully serviceable blades, and very much status oriented, rather than combat ready .

I am not sure about the merchants, but the slavers seem to have been involved in quite a lot of "combative affairs". Obviously, the locals did not become slaves willingly, but on top of the resistance they offered, the Arabs in Central Africa were involved in some serious campaigns: Tippu Tip's son Sefu waged a war with Belgian colonial troops in Congo, and the British led a war in the area around lake Malawi against an Arab slaver called Mlozi. It would appears that swords were more than just part of the dress during those times.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by TVV

I am not sure about the merchants, but the slavers seem to have been involved in quite a lot of "combative affairs". Obviously, the locals did not become slaves willingly, but on top of the resistance they offered, the Arabs in Central Africa were involved in some serious campaigns: Tippu Tip's son Sefu waged a war with Belgian colonial troops in Congo, and the British led a war in the area around lake Malawi against an Arab slaver called Mlozi. It would appears that swords were more than just part of the dress during those times.

Very well noted, and you are right, the merchants would have been in quite non combative situations as they were situated in entrepots and metropolitan areas of commerce. These persons were interested in affluence and status, and wore these embellished conical hilt swords with swagger.

The slavers were indeed the more rugged individuals in expeditions far into the interior through highly contested colonial territories and engaged in an even more contested commerce, slavery. I don't think that the weapons used in these circumstances were any more regulated or patterned in any way, however I would expect that they were chosen for serviceability as well as durability. For example it would seem that machete like blades would fare better in jungle areas than awkward broadsword blades.
In the rugged areas of colonial new Spain, the simple heavy bladed sword called the espada ancha served more as a utility arm used much like a machete, but certainly doubled as a weapon as required.

The Omani swords bladed for dance pageantry of course would never have been taken into the interior, and we cannot be certain that the status laden examples worn by merchants and elite never appeared there. However, such swords would seem a bit out of place in these conditions and with such threats.