Mysterious jambiya

Kubur · 11th December 2016, 09:21 PM

Hi Guys,
I'm very surprised that no one spotted this jambiya sold recently.
...not mine...
There is a name at the back.
I wonder if someome will be able to tell us what is this mysterious name...

David · 12th December 2016, 01:50 AM

Well Kubur, there was a Sir John Gayer who was once in charge of all the East India Company's affairs in India. But he would most probably pre-date this weapon. However, Gayer is a rather established English name as far as i can tell. Perhaps this belonged to one of his descendants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gayer_(died_1711)

motan · 12th December 2016, 11:34 AM

Hi Kubur, I have found a much more likely candidate. Citing from Wikipedia: "Gayer-Anderson Pasha:
He joined the Royal Army Medical Corps in 1904 and was later transferred to the Egyptian Army in 1907. He was then promoted to become a Major in 1914 and during the same year, he became Assistant Adjutant-General for recruiting in the Egyptian Army. In 1919, he retired from the army to become the Senior Inspector in the Egyptian Ministry of the Interior, and he later became the Oriental Secretary to the British Residency in Cairo. He retired in 1924 but continued to live in Egypt, expanding his interests in Egyptology and Oriental Studies."
He stayed a long time in Egypt and was a known orientalist and a collector of weapons that are now presented in the Gayer-Anderson Museum in Cairo.
Could be him, but as said by David, not a very rare name, so it could be someone else..

Kubur · 12th December 2016, 05:00 PM

Thank you David
Well I have someone else in mind...
I will wait a bit to see if one Forum member will find the answer.

Andreas · 12th December 2016, 05:37 PM

I'll give it a shot: Robert Grenville Gayer-Anderson (1881-1945), soldier, orientalist and famed collector.

Kubur · 12th December 2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas

I'll give it a shot: Robert Grenville Gayer-Anderson (1881-1945), soldier, orientalist and famed collector.

YES Well done my friend!
Most of his collection is in Cairo.
But some objects are dissiminated in private and public collections in US and Uk.
This jambiya was sold in US.

Andreas · 13th December 2016, 04:24 PM

Motan, I notice you had the answer to Kubur’s question ahead of me, but as you are still under probation mine got posted first. It happened to me, and it is frustrating, also a helpful answer may go unnoticed. However, this precaution helps maintaining certain standards.
About the jambiya, I have a couple of questions: what the material the hilt is made of could be? And what are these coin-looking disks with Roman numbers on them supposed to represent? An attempt to imitate Venetian ducats, perhaps?

Kubur · 13th December 2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas

Motan, I notice you had the answer to Kubur’s question ahead of me, but as you are still under probation mine got posted first. It happened to me, and it is frustrating, also a helpful answer may go unnoticed. However, this precaution helps maintaining certain standards.
About the jambiya, I have a couple of questions: what the material the hilt is made of could be? And what are these coin-looking disks with Roman numbers on them supposed to represent? An attempt to imitate Venetian ducats, perhaps?

Dear Motan,
Yes I'm so sorry, I haven't seen your answer. You got the golden ball.
Good question it's a kind of amber. It's not bakelite (I have a jambiya in bakelite and the material is very different).
The coins are copies of Indian / buddhist things. Have a look at Gracie and Elgood, they talk about that.
Best,
Kubur

Andreas · 13th December 2016, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

The coins are copies of Indian / buddhist things.

Kubur

With Roman numbers?

Kubur · 13th December 2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas

With Roman numbers?

Ok you are right and its very complicated.
They are Yemeni copies of Indian coins, themselves copies of Venetian ducats.
They replaced the Christ by Buddha...
Some jambiya have indian ruppies, British coins and sometimes Venetian ducats.

motan · 13th December 2016, 09:42 PM

Hi Andreas and Kubur. You are both being very decent, but I don't really mind. If there was a substantial money reward or few good khanjars in it..

You are right Andreas. I am still under supevision and that causes delay.
In my view, it is always nice to have some personal mark on a piece, like the name of the maker or the owner, or other signs like date or place of manufacture. This one is probably made as a present for major Gayer-Anderson and therefore, it is not older than 1915, more likely 1930-40.
Eytan

11th December 2016, 09:21 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Mysterious jambiya Hi Guys, I'm very surprised that no one spotted this jambiya sold recently. ...not mine... There is a name at the back. I wonder if someome will be able to tell us what is this mysterious name... Attached Images

12th December 2016, 11:34 AM	#3
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Gayer? Hi Kubur, I have found a much more likely candidate. Citing from Wikipedia: "Gayer-Anderson Pasha: He joined the Royal Army Medical Corps in 1904 and was later transferred to the Egyptian Army in 1907. He was then promoted to become a Major in 1914 and during the same year, he became Assistant Adjutant-General for recruiting in the Egyptian Army. In 1919, he retired from the army to become the Senior Inspector in the Egyptian Ministry of the Interior, and he later became the Oriental Secretary to the British Residency in Cairo. He retired in 1924 but continued to live in Egypt, expanding his interests in Egyptology and Oriental Studies." He stayed a long time in Egypt and was a known orientalist and a collector of weapons that are now presented in the Gayer-Anderson Museum in Cairo. Could be him, but as said by David, not a very rare name, so it could be someone else..

13th December 2016, 09:42 PM	#11
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Never mind Hi Andreas and Kubur. You are both being very decent, but I don't really mind. If there was a substantial money reward or few good khanjars in it.. You are right Andreas. I am still under supevision and that causes delay. In my view, it is always nice to have some personal mark on a piece, like the name of the maker or the owner, or other signs like date or place of manufacture. This one is probably made as a present for major Gayer-Anderson and therefore, it is not older than 1915, more likely 1930-40. Eytan

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12th December 2016, 01:50 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Well Kubur, there was a Sir John Gayer who was once in charge of all the East India Company's affairs in India. But he would most probably pre-date this weapon. However, Gayer is a rather established English name as far as i can tell. Perhaps this belonged to one of his descendants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gayer_(died_1711)

12th December 2016, 05:00 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thank you David Well I have someone else in mind... I will wait a bit to see if one Forum member will find the answer.

12th December 2016, 05:37 PM	#5
Andreas Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ionian Islands, Greece Posts: 96	I'll give it a shot: Robert Grenville Gayer-Anderson (1881-1945), soldier, orientalist and famed collector.

13th December 2016, 04:24 PM	#7
Andreas Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ionian Islands, Greece Posts: 96	Motan, I notice you had the answer to Kubur’s question ahead of me, but as you are still under probation mine got posted first. It happened to me, and it is frustrating, also a helpful answer may go unnoticed. However, this precaution helps maintaining certain standards. About the jambiya, I have a couple of questions: what the material the hilt is made of could be? And what are these coin-looking disks with Roman numbers on them supposed to represent? An attempt to imitate Venetian ducats, perhaps?