Marks on Walloon sword for id.

Jim McDougall · 14th November 2016, 02:16 PM

Hi Jasper,
Thank you so much for these responses and important information!
Along with Jean Luc, I am always amazed (and envious) at the detailed knowledge you share on so many aspects of these European swords.

In retracing notes which prompted my comment on the departure of many Solingen smiths to other countries, typically citing the disastrous "Thirty Years War" (1618-48) as one of the reasons, I find that Holland was not demonstrably among the places they went. It is however important to note that England was one location (Hounslow) and as Aylward (" The Small Sword in England") has described, there were profound connections between these countries (politically and therefore other as well). Though this really has no bearing on production of the Dutch blades discussed here, it is important to note the similarities and cross influences of English and Dutch 'walloons'.
These are well described in "British Military Swords" (Stuart Mowbray, 2013) .

In that book, Mowbray comments on the SAHAGUM marking which I mentioned earlier, and that name on these 17th c blades almost invariably suggests it is Dutch (p.91).

The excerpt you have attached here regarding the Amsterdam city mark is outstanding!! Thank you. Which reference is it from? so that I may add to my notes (which clearly need revamping) .

On the Koln (Cologne) reference, I could not locate the specific source, but in further rechecking think that it was referring to the fact that while Solingen indeed produced blades from earlier times, there were restrictions on the assembly of finished weapons. Apparently these were put together in Cologne and from there exported.....thence often termed 'Cologne swords' .
Source: "History of the Solingen Cutlery Industry", Siegfried Rosenkaimer, in 'Blades Guide to Knives and Their Values'.

Naturally this does not specify that Dutch swords alone, or in any fashion were assembled in Cologne, but may have been the source of my suggestion from notes .

Regarding the anomalous Walloon sans the four petal quillon mark, and the running wolf, TO mark and 1414....
While we have it seems long thought that these crowned TO shields were to represent Toledo, Mowbray (op. cit. p250) discusses a rapier in England with one of these marks. Here he claims that this particular mark, rather than representing (other than Toledo) a legitimate mark used in CAINO, a blade producing center in Brescia, northern Italy .

The 1414 is of course a palindrome with talismanically 'lucky' numbers along with the omnipresent 'running wolf'. While of course suggesting Solingen, where these were commonly on blades, it is interesting that they are combined with the TO mark and as noted, associated in English context as described in Mowbray .

The blade is as you suggest, probably a replacement and offers some interesting context.

Thank you again,
Jim

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14th November 2016, 02:16 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Hi Jasper, Thank you so much for these responses and important information! Along with Jean Luc, I am always amazed (and envious) at the detailed knowledge you share on so many aspects of these European swords. In retracing notes which prompted my comment on the departure of many Solingen smiths to other countries, typically citing the disastrous "Thirty Years War" (1618-48) as one of the reasons, I find that Holland was not demonstrably among the places they went. It is however important to note that England was one location (Hounslow) and as Aylward (" The Small Sword in England") has described, there were profound connections between these countries (politically and therefore other as well). Though this really has no bearing on production of the Dutch blades discussed here, it is important to note the similarities and cross influences of English and Dutch 'walloons'. These are well described in "British Military Swords" (Stuart Mowbray, 2013) . In that book, Mowbray comments on the SAHAGUM marking which I mentioned earlier, and that name on these 17th c blades almost invariably suggests it is Dutch (p.91). The excerpt you have attached here regarding the Amsterdam city mark is outstanding!! Thank you. Which reference is it from? so that I may add to my notes (which clearly need revamping) . On the Koln (Cologne) reference, I could not locate the specific source, but in further rechecking think that it was referring to the fact that while Solingen indeed produced blades from earlier times, there were restrictions on the assembly of finished weapons. Apparently these were put together in Cologne and from there exported.....thence often termed 'Cologne swords' . Source: "History of the Solingen Cutlery Industry", Siegfried Rosenkaimer, in 'Blades Guide to Knives and Their Values'. Naturally this does not specify that Dutch swords alone, or in any fashion were assembled in Cologne, but may have been the source of my suggestion from notes . Regarding the anomalous Walloon sans the four petal quillon mark, and the running wolf, TO mark and 1414.... While we have it seems long thought that these crowned TO shields were to represent Toledo, Mowbray (op. cit. p250) discusses a rapier in England with one of these marks. Here he claims that this particular mark, rather than representing (other than Toledo) a legitimate mark used in CAINO, a blade producing center in Brescia, northern Italy . The 1414 is of course a palindrome with talismanically 'lucky' numbers along with the omnipresent 'running wolf'. While of course suggesting Solingen, where these were commonly on blades, it is interesting that they are combined with the TO mark and as noted, associated in English context as described in Mowbray . The blade is as you suggest, probably a replacement and offers some interesting context. Thank you again, Jim