1st September 2016, 05:53 AM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Ottoman hancer / court dagger?
Any opinions as to how old this may be. It is a very heavy dagger, 18 in. long with a 12.5 in. blade.
|
1st September 2016, 06:36 AM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
Very impressive dagger! Congratulations!
Is it wootz? 18th century if not earlier?! I am not sure the the name "hancer" is the correct one, and I would like to learn more about this. |
1st September 2016, 09:08 AM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
Ah ah, clever, I was interested by this one!
You should post the scabbard too. It's an interesting piece done only with old and original parts. Hilt ottoman jambiya 19th c. Blade Ottoman so-called court dagger 18th c. and scabbard Ottoman kinjal 19th c. It's really a nice object, but it's a combinaison of stuffs. You can see that the blade is too small for the scabbard. The hilt is too big for the blade and the hilt is too big for the scabbard. Plus a nail in the hilt to fix the blade. The question is when this strange combinaison was done? |
1st September 2016, 10:56 AM | #4 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
Quote:
Also the checkered pattern of the koftgari is the same style both on the hilt and on the blade, and appears to be contemporary with both. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 1st September 2016 at 12:59 PM. |
|
1st September 2016, 03:40 PM | #5 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
Quote:
|
|
1st September 2016, 03:44 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
|
and that...
|
1st September 2016, 06:43 PM | #7 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
As for "hancer", this name is used by some to describe these Ottoman daggers, others use "court dagger", its just a name for categorization. |
|
1st September 2016, 07:08 PM | #8 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
To me it appears as if someone made this into a fighting dagger at some point in the past, it probably had an ivory or stone hilt originally. The current hilt is a much better hilt for actual use as many of the hilts normally associated with these types of daggers look to be a bit small. The seller had this listed at an extremely low "buy it now" price instead of auctioning it, probably a mistake on his part, plus his images were really bad. I have always wanted one of these blades but have not wanted to pay the high price usually asked, this was a fraction of the price compared to a pristine example. Here is a link to some images of other examples. https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiq...-court-dagger/ Last edited by estcrh; 1st September 2016 at 07:34 PM. |
|
1st September 2016, 07:34 PM | #9 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Here is a jambiya with a similar hilt.
|
1st September 2016, 07:46 PM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
I don't know why I have the feeling it is wootz.
The scabbard is clearly a recent addition but the hilt, whether original or most probably not, is a very good match to the blade. |
1st September 2016, 08:03 PM | #11 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
Here is a traditionally hilted Ottoman court dagger with a damaged hilt, this is probably what happened to the one I just bought, the hilt was damaged and replaced with a jambiya hilt. This is a rare image showing the tang within the hilt. |
|
1st September 2016, 08:48 PM | #12 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
or another one in better shape
|
1st September 2016, 09:44 PM | #13 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 457
|
Hancers and yatagans
The word "hancer" is modern Turkish and just means a dagger. It is from Arabic "khanjar," and is pronounced "HON-jer." Academically, it is used to distinguish Ottoman daggers from others.
Incidentally, the well-known Ottoman yataghan (yatagan, with a soft G in Turkish) takes its name for the Turkish verb yatmak , which means to lie, or repose. This is due to the fact that the yatagan was typically worn perpendicular, or nearly perpendicular, to the waist. Last edited by Oliver Pinchot; 2nd September 2016 at 04:12 AM. |
2nd September 2016, 06:08 AM | #14 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
Quote:
|
|
2nd September 2016, 06:14 AM | #15 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
Double message deleted
|
2nd September 2016, 06:44 AM | #16 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
|
|
2nd September 2016, 07:00 AM | #17 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
Quote:
I still don't know whether it is wootz or not, but I am going to try etching it soon. PS: I tried to send you a private message but it appears your mailbox is full. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 2nd September 2016 at 07:51 AM. |
|
6th September 2016, 10:21 AM | #18 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
What a blade this is!
The scabbard will be relatively new...accepted... The hilt however is massively worn and under scrutiny has the same criss cross pattern as the golden work on the blade as has the crossguard. The massive wear on the hilt thus gives age to the original hilt and blade. May this be a snapped sword recovered and made at the time 17th/18tyh C. A masterwork in recycling...spoils of war? |
6th September 2016, 03:45 PM | #19 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
Last edited by estcrh; 6th September 2016 at 04:16 PM. |
|
6th September 2016, 04:27 PM | #20 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
|
|
7th September 2016, 06:26 AM | #21 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|