A Lovely Indonesian Parang With An Amazing Pedang Lurus Style Hilt

CharlesS · 28th August 2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It is a pedang, not a parang. I'd probably call it a pedang lameng, others might call it a luwuk, or a bandol or something else. There are a number of different pedang styles, and the differences between one style and another are often very small, and in my experience, very subject to individual opinion.

Alan,

Can you please clarify the use of "parang" vs. "pedang". Previously I had thought two terms to be fairly generic terms for sword. Indonesians I have spoken to about the terms had laid them out in that way, but none of them were collectors so essentially it was just a look at Indonesian vocabulary! I had read an argument once that pedangs were more likely stabbing swords, and parangs were more likely slashers. I think a lot of us would benefit from clarification of these terms, perhaps adding "klewang" as well.

Thanks for you input!

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2016, 11:24 PM

The word "pedang" is generic for "sword", there are many types and the classifying names used can vary from person to person.

A parang is a chopper or cleaver, but if you use a knife to chop, as in chopping up something in the kitchen that knife may be referred to as a parang while you are using it to chop, start using it cut again, and it becomes a knife again. The act of chopping is "marang".

A klewang is a pedang with broad curved blade, what we would call a cutlass.

The above is as I understand the terms to be used in Central Jawa, they may be used differently in other places.

Bahasa Indonesia is the public Indonesian National Language, people in different areas of Indonesia use local languages in normal daily contact and conversation. So what I've given above is Javanese usage in a part of Central Jawa.

Bahasa Indonesia usage requires a parang to have a short blade, for instance, a machete would be a parang.

Bahasa Indonesia is a language developed from the dialect of Malay spoken in South Sumatera. In BI, pedang is still "sword" and "klewang" is still a sword like a cutlass.

In Balinese "parang" and "klewang" appear not to exist, but of course could be used when BI is being used. "Pedang" becomes "peding".

A golok is is also a short chopping tool.

It is possible that pedang, parang, klewang, golok are all words that came into Indonesian and Javanese usage from Malay.

I do not know any of these words in Old Javanese, the language that was used generally in Jawa prior to the Second Kingdom of Mataram, late 16th century. The usual word for a sword in Old Javanese is "kadgo", which comes from the Sanscrit.

The correct classification of weaponry --- and maybe everything else --- in accord with indigenous usage can be incredibly difficult, if not impossible. Firstly we must identify the area that the object comes from, the period during which it was made, and then we must qualify the name we give it in accordance with both geographic location and time frame as well as the source of our information.

My personal preference is that when in doubt, I prefer to use English.

As an after thought:- the name used for any of the above could vary depending on situation and usage. What comes to mind is a situation that I was a part of where an old pedang was being used to chop grass along the side of the street, when the job was being done it was referred to as a parang, when the job was finished and it was wiped clean and put back into its scabbard it was referred to as a pedang.

CharlesS · 28th August 2016, 11:52 PM

Great contribution Alan. The "afterthought" goes a long ways towards explaining the difference in terms. One almost seems like the action while the other does the action.

A. G. Maisey · 29th August 2016, 02:59 AM

Not quite Charles.

To cut with a pedang is "medhang".

To chop is "marang", and the chopping can be with a knife or other chopper, but "marang" comes from "parang", thus a parang is a chopper, but a knife or sword can be a parang, depending on how it is used, and a parang can be a sword (pedang) depending on how it is used.

So if you "medhang" with a parang, during the course of that action, the parang becomes a pedang.

In Javanese a golok can be a dagger, in BI it is a something like a machete, and in current common usage I believe most Javanese would call a short dagger that can be used for chopping, a golok.

To slash with a klewang is "nglewang".

In Jawa/Bali/Madura it is not just a matter of looking up the form and name in book, or going to a dictionary and looking for the equivalent of sword. To use a language, and this includes words from a language we need to be able to think as the native speakers of that language think.

I've gone on record previously about the name game, so I will not now say any more, except that this "correct name " thing is not as easy as it might appear, at least not with weapons from Indonesia.

ariel · 29th August 2016, 04:01 AM

It is very funny: read post #152 at the Shashka topic.
Virtually identical info regarding North Caucasian languages and the Western propensity to mislabel Eastern weapons because of their ignorance of local linguistical nuances:-)))

Sajen · 29th August 2016, 11:36 AM

Beautiful pedang!

Battara · 29th August 2016, 08:36 PM

Alan, "parang" in Bahasa Indonesian, which is a cutting implement, may be related to the word "parang" in a sister language, Tagalog, which means "field".

The connection of cutting a field with a cutting implement. I find etymology fascinating.

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28th August 2016, 11:24 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	The word "pedang" is generic for "sword", there are many types and the classifying names used can vary from person to person. A parang is a chopper or cleaver, but if you use a knife to chop, as in chopping up something in the kitchen that knife may be referred to as a parang while you are using it to chop, start using it cut again, and it becomes a knife again. The act of chopping is "marang". A klewang is a pedang with broad curved blade, what we would call a cutlass. The above is as I understand the terms to be used in Central Jawa, they may be used differently in other places. Bahasa Indonesia is the public Indonesian National Language, people in different areas of Indonesia use local languages in normal daily contact and conversation. So what I've given above is Javanese usage in a part of Central Jawa. Bahasa Indonesia usage requires a parang to have a short blade, for instance, a machete would be a parang. Bahasa Indonesia is a language developed from the dialect of Malay spoken in South Sumatera. In BI, pedang is still "sword" and "klewang" is still a sword like a cutlass. In Balinese "parang" and "klewang" appear not to exist, but of course could be used when BI is being used. "Pedang" becomes "peding". A golok is is also a short chopping tool. It is possible that pedang, parang, klewang, golok are all words that came into Indonesian and Javanese usage from Malay. I do not know any of these words in Old Javanese, the language that was used generally in Jawa prior to the Second Kingdom of Mataram, late 16th century. The usual word for a sword in Old Javanese is "kadgo", which comes from the Sanscrit. The correct classification of weaponry --- and maybe everything else --- in accord with indigenous usage can be incredibly difficult, if not impossible. Firstly we must identify the area that the object comes from, the period during which it was made, and then we must qualify the name we give it in accordance with both geographic location and time frame as well as the source of our information. My personal preference is that when in doubt, I prefer to use English. As an after thought:- the name used for any of the above could vary depending on situation and usage. What comes to mind is a situation that I was a part of where an old pedang was being used to chop grass along the side of the street, when the job was being done it was referred to as a parang, when the job was finished and it was wiped clean and put back into its scabbard it was referred to as a pedang.

28th August 2016, 11:52 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Great contribution Alan. The "afterthought" goes a long ways towards explaining the difference in terms. One almost seems like the action while the other does the action.

29th August 2016, 02:59 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Not quite Charles. To cut with a pedang is "medhang". To chop is "marang", and the chopping can be with a knife or other chopper, but "marang" comes from "parang", thus a parang is a chopper, but a knife or sword can be a parang, depending on how it is used, and a parang can be a sword (pedang) depending on how it is used. So if you "medhang" with a parang, during the course of that action, the parang becomes a pedang. In Javanese a golok can be a dagger, in BI it is a something like a machete, and in current common usage I believe most Javanese would call a short dagger that can be used for chopping, a golok. To slash with a klewang is "nglewang". In Jawa/Bali/Madura it is not just a matter of looking up the form and name in book, or going to a dictionary and looking for the equivalent of sword. To use a language, and this includes words from a language we need to be able to think as the native speakers of that language think. I've gone on record previously about the name game, so I will not now say any more, except that this "correct name " thing is not as easy as it might appear, at least not with weapons from Indonesia.

29th August 2016, 04:01 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is very funny: read post #152 at the Shashka topic. Virtually identical info regarding North Caucasian languages and the Western propensity to mislabel Eastern weapons because of their ignorance of local linguistical nuances:-)))

29th August 2016, 11:36 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Beautiful pedang!

29th August 2016, 08:36 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Alan, "parang" in Bahasa Indonesian, which is a cutting implement, may be related to the word "parang" in a sister language, Tagalog, which means "field". The connection of cutting a field with a cutting implement. I find etymology fascinating.