Early Ottoman/Eastern European Sabre for Comment

Jim McDougall · 7th July 2016, 04:40 PM

Teodor,
The aghrab is a highly stylized element, in the case of the Hadhramauti (Yemen) saifs placed at the base of the langet receiver at the scabbard throat. Personally I cannot say whether or not this decorative element constitutes an 'aghrab' on your sabre, but it aligns with examples which have been described as such.
Whatever the case, this is a remarkably handsome sword, and most intriguing with its confluence of such a number of influences. I especially like the chevron motif on the grips, again recalling Polish karabela.
While it appears rosettes are missing on the grip, the remaining one to me only adds to the mystique of this sword as it shows what the hilt would have displayed at one time. These again, if not mistaken, recall the rosettes on Eastern European karabela.....I do not have the Ostrowski article with me, but that would probably show examples.

estcrh · 7th July 2016, 10:32 PM

I have looked around and have not found another sword and scabbard that match this one, the closest one is this Ottoman sword which also has a walrus ivory hilt.

Quote:

Lot Description
AN OTTOMAN CHILD'S SWORD
SIGNED DAWUD, OTTOMAN TURKEY, 17TH CENTURY
The short curved blade with single-edged upper section and widened point with double-edge, gold overlay outlined gutter, small gold signature cartouche to one side, geometric lattice on side of forte, stained walrus-ivory hilt decorated with inset diamond botehs and gold inset stellar motifs with green enamelled centres, gold cross- guard and scabbard fittings engraved and nielloed on both sides with fine floral scrolls, inset turquoises on the end of the pommel and the quillons, scabbard of green velvet decorated with silver wire floral motifs with attached cultured pearls, engraved gold belt rings with attached string with glass beads, later replaced inset hardstones to the hilt and top of the scabbard, good condition
23in. (58.5cm.) long

The mounts on this elegant sword are decorated in nielloed silver in a style fashionable during the seventeenth century. A number of similarly decorated published pieces are stamped with a tughra of Mehmed IV (r. 1648-87) and some exist in European collections, having been taken as war booty from the Ottomans after the siege of Vienna in 1683. The pieces decorated in this style and stamped with Mehmed IV's tughra include two horse caparisons, daggers and spears (Bashir Mohamed, The Arts of the Muslim Knight. The Furusiyya Art Foundation Collection, Milan, 2007, no. 35, p.71). A number of examples which do not bear a tughra, but which can be dated with some accuracy on the basis of their dates of acquisition, are illustrated in Holger Schuckelt, Die Türckische Cammer. Sammlung orientalischer Kunst in der kurfürstlich-sächsischen Rüstkammer Dresden, exhibition catalogue, Dresden, 2010, no.254, p.249.

TVV · 7th July 2016, 11:04 PM

Jim, thank you for your input. As usual, your vast knowledge allows you to see similarities with swords from Poland to Yemen to even India. I agree that there seem to be a lot of features, common with Eastern and Central European swords, starting with the blade and even in the hilt. Not at all surprising considering the history of warfare between the Ottomans, Habsburgs, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and their various allies, as well as where this sword was found and currently resides.

Estrch, thank you for posting this example, which while not a perfect fit, seems to be very similar, almost like a very luxurious version of the subject sword. If you look past the gold and the precious stones, the hilt and the scabbard appear to be of very similar form, down to the rings where the baldric is attached. Apart from the Ottoman attribution, is there any additional information about this sword?

Teodor

estcrh · 7th July 2016, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Estrch, thank you for posting this example, which while not a perfect fit, seems to be very similar, almost like a very luxurious version of the subject sword. If you look past the gold and the precious stones, the hilt and the scabbard appear to be of very similar form, down to the rings where the baldric is attached. Apart from the Ottoman attribution, is there any additional information about this sword?

Teodor

Teodor, look up, I added the info to my post.

TVV · 8th July 2016, 12:50 AM

Thank you!

T. Koch · 17th July 2016, 12:24 PM

Nice sword, love the hilt! Could you take a pic and show the scales in cross-section? It looks as if it has the crystalline 2. dentine of walrus visible at the end of the pommes, but the way the scales arae patinated laterally, it also looks a lot like a piece of elephant carved from the bark/core-area. Whichever it is, the patination is very beautiful!

Cheers, Thor

ariel · 18th July 2016, 02:18 AM

I am with Oliver on this one.
The overall gestalt is Ottoman. However, the Ottomans spread their influence far and wide, from Yemen to Hungary and from North Africa to Russia/ Ukraine , with some forays into India.
Thus, precise geographic attribution may not be 100% possible, although some possibilities are more likely than others. My best guess ( exactly that: just a guess!) would be Central Europe. For me the blade, with uninterrupted "jaws" markings and widening toward the tip, represents a somewhat mysterious component: It is rather similar to S. Aravian nimcha.

How to put it together beats me, but old Oriental weapons in general often have so many bizarre features and so many admixtures during their life span , that nothing would surprise me.

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7th July 2016, 04:40 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,452	Teodor, The aghrab is a highly stylized element, in the case of the Hadhramauti (Yemen) saifs placed at the base of the langet receiver at the scabbard throat. Personally I cannot say whether or not this decorative element constitutes an 'aghrab' on your sabre, but it aligns with examples which have been described as such. Whatever the case, this is a remarkably handsome sword, and most intriguing with its confluence of such a number of influences. I especially like the chevron motif on the grips, again recalling Polish karabela. While it appears rosettes are missing on the grip, the remaining one to me only adds to the mystique of this sword as it shows what the hilt would have displayed at one time. These again, if not mistaken, recall the rosettes on Eastern European karabela.....I do not have the Ostrowski article with me, but that would probably show examples.

7th July 2016, 11:04 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	Jim, thank you for your input. As usual, your vast knowledge allows you to see similarities with swords from Poland to Yemen to even India. I agree that there seem to be a lot of features, common with Eastern and Central European swords, starting with the blade and even in the hilt. Not at all surprising considering the history of warfare between the Ottomans, Habsburgs, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and their various allies, as well as where this sword was found and currently resides. Estrch, thank you for posting this example, which while not a perfect fit, seems to be very similar, almost like a very luxurious version of the subject sword. If you look past the gold and the precious stones, the hilt and the scabbard appear to be of very similar form, down to the rings where the baldric is attached. Apart from the Ottoman attribution, is there any additional information about this sword? Teodor

8th July 2016, 12:50 AM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	Thank you!

17th July 2016, 12:24 PM	#6
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Nice sword, love the hilt! Could you take a pic and show the scales in cross-section? It looks as if it has the crystalline 2. dentine of walrus visible at the end of the pommes, but the way the scales arae patinated laterally, it also looks a lot like a piece of elephant carved from the bark/core-area. Whichever it is, the patination is very beautiful! Cheers, Thor

18th July 2016, 02:18 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am with Oliver on this one. The overall gestalt is Ottoman. However, the Ottomans spread their influence far and wide, from Yemen to Hungary and from North Africa to Russia/ Ukraine , with some forays into India. Thus, precise geographic attribution may not be 100% possible, although some possibilities are more likely than others. My best guess ( exactly that: just a guess!) would be Central Europe. For me the blade, with uninterrupted "jaws" markings and widening toward the tip, represents a somewhat mysterious component: It is rather similar to S. Aravian nimcha. How to put it together beats me, but old Oriental weapons in general often have so many bizarre features and so many admixtures during their life span , that nothing would surprise me.