Help needed with the ID of this flintlock pistol

Ivo · 2nd August 2015, 08:30 AM

Hello,
I need your opinion about this pistol ?
I bought it some time ago but it is a mystery to me.

Regards,
Ivo

stelio · 2nd August 2015, 07:38 PM

Hello Ivo.
I think your pistol is from ottoman empire area in 19th century.This type pistols made in balkans from the north africa markets(Algeria,morocco)
Stelios

TVV · 2nd August 2015, 08:45 PM

Hi Ivo,

Glad to see you here as well. I agree with Stelio: the brass plates have a distinctly Balkan decoration, while coral is often used on North African arms. Elgood mentions that there were shops in Epirus which produced weapons specifically meant for export to Tunisia and Algeria.

Regards,
Teodor

Ivo · 2nd August 2015, 09:57 PM

Thanks for your answers.
Teo I was also glad to see you.

Regards,
Ivo

rickystl · 2nd August 2015, 11:05 PM

Hi Ivo.
That is a beautiful pistol !! I agree with the others above. Likely made at one of the Balkan gun making centers and decorated for Algerian or Moroccan tastes. And I'm leaning towards Algerian. The lock is similar to many Ottoman/Balkan locks made for these pistols. But I really like the brass nose cap design on this one. Really adds to the overall North African look.
A super nice pistol I've been drewling over since I first viewed the photos.
Rick.

Kubur · 3rd August 2015, 11:25 AM

I agree with all above. Me I will bet on Algerian or Tunisian.
Kubur

BANDOOK · 3rd August 2015, 12:51 PM

A VERY BEAUTIFUL PISTOL IN GOOD CONDITION FOR ITS AGE,AGREE WITH RICK AND KUBUR AM LEANING TOWARDS ALGERIA,CHEERS

Kubur · 28th December 2015, 09:25 AM

Hi Guys,

I did some researches about this pistol.
And I' m sure that this pistol comes from Tunisia.
The pistol has some features of the North African pistols such as the nails (Morocco), the decorated lock (Algeria), but the overall shape and the mother-of-pearl decorations are Tunisians.
I attach some photographs of a pistol recently sold with a barrel signed "made in Tunis"... You'll see some similarities. Plus I will post a pistol that I got recently very similar...
Nevertheless these pistols present strong influences with Balkans firearms, especially in Elgood (Arms of Greece, p. 207) You can see the connexion with the Rat tail pistols...

Kubur

Ivo · 28th December 2015, 10:06 PM

Hi,
here are another two.

Regards,
Ivo

TVV · 29th December 2015, 09:37 AM

Kubur, great work on narrowing down the origin to Tunisia. That being said, the style and technique of the decoration on the brass sheet parts has a Balkan feel to it. Could it be possible that these pistols were assembled in the Balkans but meant for export to the Maghreb?

Regards,
Teodor

Kubur · 29th December 2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Kubur, great work on narrowing down the origin to Tunisia. That being said, the style and technique of the decoration on the brass sheet parts has a Balkan feel to it. Could it be possible that these pistols were assembled in the Balkans but meant for export to the Maghreb?

Regards,
Teodor

Hi Teodor,

It is strongly possible.
As Balkan firearms were mostly Italian parts, locks, barrels...
It is possible that the Tunisian pistols were only decorated in Tunis but the parts came from the Balkans.
If you have read my previous posts, i do not think that the identity of a gun belongs to the origin of the components but to the place where the gun was assembled and sold... The same for swords, I read some silly comments of some members about sword names and origins, for me an Ottoman sword with a Persian blade is an Ottoman sword, the ID of the sword is the hilt and sometimes the scabbard...
It's my opinion and I agree to myself

rickystl · 29th December 2015, 05:42 PM

Hi Kubur.
Yes, great job narrowing down the I.D. of this pistol. I do indeed see the subtle similarities with the Tunisian influence. Good job.
As mentioned, the cone shape butt cap similar to the Albanian rat tail pistols shows the cross-culture influence on the designs.
Again, I really like this pistol.
Rick

2nd August 2015, 08:30 AM	#1
Ivo Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 38	Help needed with the ID of this flintlock pistol Hello, I need your opinion about this pistol ? I bought it some time ago but it is a mystery to me. Regards, Ivo Attached Images Last edited by Ivo; 2nd August 2015 at 03:16 PM.

2nd August 2015, 07:38 PM	#2
stelio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 97	Hello Ivo. I think your pistol is from ottoman empire area in 19th century.This type pistols made in balkans from the north africa markets(Algeria,morocco) Stelios Last edited by stelio; 2nd August 2015 at 08:14 PM.

28th December 2015, 09:25 AM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Guys, I did some researches about this pistol. And I' m sure that this pistol comes from Tunisia. The pistol has some features of the North African pistols such as the nails (Morocco), the decorated lock (Algeria), but the overall shape and the mother-of-pearl decorations are Tunisians. I attach some photographs of a pistol recently sold with a barrel signed "made in Tunis"... You'll see some similarities. Plus I will post a pistol that I got recently very similar... Nevertheless these pistols present strong influences with Balkans firearms, especially in Elgood (Arms of Greece, p. 207) You can see the connexion with the Rat tail pistols... Kubur Attached Images

28th December 2015, 10:06 PM	#9
Ivo Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 38	Hi, here are another two. Regards, Ivo Attached Images

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2nd August 2015, 08:45 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Hi Ivo, Glad to see you here as well. I agree with Stelio: the brass plates have a distinctly Balkan decoration, while coral is often used on North African arms. Elgood mentions that there were shops in Epirus which produced weapons specifically meant for export to Tunisia and Algeria. Regards, Teodor

2nd August 2015, 09:57 PM	#4
Ivo Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 38	Thanks for your answers. Teo I was also glad to see you. Regards, Ivo

2nd August 2015, 11:05 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Ivo. That is a beautiful pistol !! I agree with the others above. Likely made at one of the Balkan gun making centers and decorated for Algerian or Moroccan tastes. And I'm leaning towards Algerian. The lock is similar to many Ottoman/Balkan locks made for these pistols. But I really like the brass nose cap design on this one. Really adds to the overall North African look. A super nice pistol I've been drewling over since I first viewed the photos. Rick.

3rd August 2015, 11:25 AM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I agree with all above. Me I will bet on Algerian or Tunisian. Kubur

3rd August 2015, 12:51 PM	#7
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	A VERY BEAUTIFUL PISTOL IN GOOD CONDITION FOR ITS AGE,AGREE WITH RICK AND KUBUR AM LEANING TOWARDS ALGERIA,CHEERS

29th December 2015, 09:37 AM	#10
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Kubur, great work on narrowing down the origin to Tunisia. That being said, the style and technique of the decoration on the brass sheet parts has a Balkan feel to it. Could it be possible that these pistols were assembled in the Balkans but meant for export to the Maghreb? Regards, Teodor

29th December 2015, 05:42 PM	#12
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Kubur. Yes, great job narrowing down the I.D. of this pistol. I do indeed see the subtle similarities with the Tunisian influence. Good job. As mentioned, the cone shape butt cap similar to the Albanian rat tail pistols shows the cross-culture influence on the designs. Again, I really like this pistol. Rick