My first (real) keris

harrywagner · 22nd September 2015, 09:59 PM

My first real keris. Well, sort of. I had three souvenir keris for just long enough to get me interested, and I still have two Philippine kris, but I don't know enough about Indonesian weapons to know if those count or not? Anyway, comments appreciated.

Harry

A. G. Maisey · 23rd September 2015, 12:47 AM

A good start Harry.

Old, very pedestrian quality, all of a piece, very probably West Bali or East Jawa. More likely Bali than Jawa, but the blade is very probably Jawa --- this blade is not possible to be definite on in its present condition, and maybe not even from a photo.

However, if the scabbard is not original to the blade, all bets are off, because if this applies, it could be a dealer's montage.

David · 23rd September 2015, 05:44 AM

Alan, i am interested in your assessment because the only part of this keris i would have thought was from Bali is the uwer. I certainly wouldn't have thought that sheath form anything but Javanese.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd September 2015, 09:06 AM

Yes, you're right David, but this keris is really something that I would expect to find in the possession of Mr. Ordinary. Its not the sort of thing that we could associate with the pura influenced areas of South Bali.

Once we move into West Bali we find an overlap of Javanese influence, and in East Jawa, right out on the tip in the area of Blambangan , there is an overlap of Balinese influence. Take this into account with the fact that even in South Bali a lot of people are now using Javanese gayaman wrongkos along with Javanese and Madurese blades, and then consider that we are very unlikely to see such a combination as we move away from Blambangan.

If this wrongko is original to the blade, I reckon East Jawa/West Bali is a fair guess, but even if it is not original, I still reckon its an each way bet on whether its a montage or was used in one place or the other.

We are used to seeing kraton specific/pura specific/court specific keris dress, but the fact of the matter is that once we move into an area away from the seats of power, people do pretty much as they themselves see fit.

Or think of it another way:- if we do not place it in East Jawa/West Bali, where can we place it --- apart from a dealer's backroom that is.

Henk · 23rd September 2015, 10:59 AM

My comment would be balinese ukiran and uwer on a javanese keris and scabbard.I would describe the dapur of the blade as brodjol.

But your explanation makes sense Alan, as always.

harrywagner · 24th September 2015, 01:03 PM

Thanks all for the comments. The only provenance I have for this piece is that it shipped from Redding, California and was part of an estate sale of a collector. I bought a Burmese dha (also quite nice) at the same time.

Thanks again!
Harry

22nd September 2015, 09:59 PM	#1
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	My first (real) keris My first real keris. Well, sort of. I had three souvenir keris for just long enough to get me interested, and I still have two Philippine kris, but I don't know enough about Indonesian weapons to know if those count or not? Anyway, comments appreciated. Harry Attached Images

24th September 2015, 01:03 PM	#6
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Food for thought Thanks all for the comments. The only provenance I have for this piece is that it shipped from Redding, California and was part of an estate sale of a collector. I bought a Burmese dha (also quite nice) at the same time. Thanks again! Harry

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23rd September 2015, 12:47 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	A good start Harry. Old, very pedestrian quality, all of a piece, very probably West Bali or East Jawa. More likely Bali than Jawa, but the blade is very probably Jawa --- this blade is not possible to be definite on in its present condition, and maybe not even from a photo. However, if the scabbard is not original to the blade, all bets are off, because if this applies, it could be a dealer's montage.

23rd September 2015, 05:44 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Alan, i am interested in your assessment because the only part of this keris i would have thought was from Bali is the uwer. I certainly wouldn't have thought that sheath form anything but Javanese.

23rd September 2015, 09:06 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Yes, you're right David, but this keris is really something that I would expect to find in the possession of Mr. Ordinary. Its not the sort of thing that we could associate with the pura influenced areas of South Bali. Once we move into West Bali we find an overlap of Javanese influence, and in East Jawa, right out on the tip in the area of Blambangan , there is an overlap of Balinese influence. Take this into account with the fact that even in South Bali a lot of people are now using Javanese gayaman wrongkos along with Javanese and Madurese blades, and then consider that we are very unlikely to see such a combination as we move away from Blambangan. If this wrongko is original to the blade, I reckon East Jawa/West Bali is a fair guess, but even if it is not original, I still reckon its an each way bet on whether its a montage or was used in one place or the other. We are used to seeing kraton specific/pura specific/court specific keris dress, but the fact of the matter is that once we move into an area away from the seats of power, people do pretty much as they themselves see fit. Or think of it another way:- if we do not place it in East Jawa/West Bali, where can we place it --- apart from a dealer's backroom that is.

23rd September 2015, 10:59 AM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	My comment would be balinese ukiran and uwer on a javanese keris and scabbard.I would describe the dapur of the blade as brodjol. But your explanation makes sense Alan, as always.