Rubens hunter

[Miqueleter]

Greetings, I have been wanting to ask the members what variety of gunlock is pictured in Peter Paul Rubens An Autumn Landscape with a View of Hetsteen circa 1635. I believe it to be an agujeta of sorts. Detail in paintings leave a lot to the imagination. But given the time and place of the painting, agujeta or maybe some sort of romanlock seems likely.

Anyone care to take a stab at it?

[IMG][/IMG]

[Fernando K]

hello

I can not or will not enlarge the image to see the details ...

Fernando K

[Miqueleter]

Fernando K, I see what you mean. I will do some more work and come up with a zoomed image later today. Sorry about that.

[Miqueleter]

Fernando, as you may suspect, I am not a whiz at posting photos, so this one may be overkill.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Fernando K]

Quizás quisiste decir: Hola, Miguelete Es imposible aventurar alguna opinion, pero te diria que no se trata de la agujet porque no se ve el gancho de seguridad, detras del cock, y se adivina un resorte doblado del frizeen. Para mi, el artista quiso pintar un miquelete clasico. Por comparacion hay algunos autores españoles, que han reflejado exactamente la agujet y el miguelete. En este foro, hay un post iniciado por Matchlock, con la agujet en una pintura, hay una pintura de Francisco de Goya, Carlos III cazador, con una escopeta de miquelete Afectuosamente. Fernando K P: He escrito agujet sin la A final por problemas con el traductor
Hello, Migueleter

It is impossible to venture any opinion, but I would say that is not the agujet because there is safety hook, behind the cock, and a bent spring frizeen guess. For me, the artist wanted to paint a classic miquelete.

By comparison there are some Spanish authors who have reflected exactly the agujet and miguelete. In this forum, there is a post initiated by Matchlock, with agujet in a painting is a painting of Francisco de Goya, Carlos III hunter with a shotgun miquelete

Affectionately. Fernando K

P: D: I have written without the final A agujet problems with the translator

[Raf]

A comparison with one of our Algerian toe locks shown cocked and viewed at a similar oblique angle . Surely it has to be a toe lock which is one of the simplest and probably earliest form of snapping type locks . Competitive with the Miguelet in Spain , contemporary with the wheelock in Italy, widely distributed though Russia and primitive versions are still being used in Tibet.

[kronckew]

poor doggie, his feet look like they've been worn out, all the ligaments stretched. one of my doggy rescue friends had a 2 yr., old galgo dog come in with feet like that from running all day behind a romany traveller's wagon.

[Fernando K]

hello

In any case the plate is extended in front of Frizen, which does not happen in the agujet. In addition, there are some migueletes that cock pole is tilted, not straight or depends on the position (half-cock, full-cock)

However, the image can not hazard a review

Affectionately. Fernando

[fernando]

Hi Miqueleter,
You have been long enough with us to know we strongly discourage links to web photo hosts. Links vanish and threads stay ... with blanks
Please care to upload pictures wit the forum attachment features, next time.

[Jim McDougall]

Migueleter, I would like to thank you for opening this thread! While I know little on these guns, I find it fascinating to see these art works analyzed in their content, especially the weaponry. This is an exciting view into history THROUGH the weapons.. and as noted, certain artists seem to have been remarkably accurate in depictions, giving us wonderful context.

The discussion here is most rewarding for those of us who wish to learn more on these arms, and as Fernando has well noted, it is disappointing to lose the illustrations so pertinent to it.

Best regards,
Jim

[Shakethetrees]

Could it be a snaphaunce? The frozen appears to me to be of that type.

[kronckew]

i suspect there is a bit of artistic license in the depiction of the weapon in the painting (and of the dog).

p.s. -i'd posted (as attachment) a large screen capture of the hunter so we'd have it available in case Miqueleter's link broke. i have since found a much larger image of the whole painting to cut the hunter from & attached it above instead.

p.s. - don't think that helped much, still too little detail of the lock.

[Raf]

Sorry to labour the point . If we are going to assume the diagonal line across the lock plate is an external mainspring then in both miquelet and toe locks the mainspring starts being roughly horizontal , that is parallel with the barrel . Or in some migulet's slightly up hill . In the Minqulet since the spring acts on the rear of the cock at full cock it points either downhill or roughly horizontal . in a toe lock at full cock the mainspring points uphill which I think is what is shown in the painting . Yes, the miquelet shown is Albanian but the principles the same . Anyway , to help people make up their own mind here are a couple of aqujetas ; sorry I have lost the source of the painting but I think its Spanish and the other possible candidates which are italian locks .

For clarification the aqujeta was the Spanish version of the Italian toe lock or romanlock and may have been introduced from Italy. The defining characteristic of the aqujeta is the dog catch behind the cock used to resolve the half cock problem. The cock is pulled back beyond the full cock position and the dog catch pushed forward to engage with the cock . Pulling the cock backwards slightly automatically disengages the catch and the cock drops onto the horizontally moving full cock sear which engages with the rear foot of the cock .

[Miqueleter]

RAF, thanks for saving my bacon with your correct posting of images. For all others (Fernando K, fernando, and Jim, ever the Gentleman) my apologies for being stupid by using another forums image rules. I will do better in the future. I could lay it all on a recent illness, but I'd be fibbing.

I'm liking the responses to the post. Guessing what a painter knew or had at hand for reference objects is just that-guessing.

Again, thanks to all.