Interesting Saif with Provenance for Sharing

[A.alnakkas]

Hey Jim,

These are made for use by the Saudi Government (and other states, now existing or gone.) some of the uses for this swords is well, as a weapon. The rest being for the ardha, executions and gifting.

I mentioned specifically that its not made FOR gifting only to show that these swords had a context in which it was used.

[RSWORD]

The sword looks much better than the auction pictures. Looked like it had bad rusting or was even in a fire. Did you restore or clean up this sword? If so, it turned out much better than expected given what was shown at auction.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

The sword looks much better than the auction pictures. Looked like it had bad rusting or was even in a fire. Did you restore or clean up this sword? If so, it turned out much better than expected given what was shown at auction.

Hey Rick,

Yes, and I got it relatively cheap for what it is. The mounts were heavily smoked... so likely it was displayed over a fire place.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Jim,

These are made for use by the Saudi Government (and other states, now existing or gone.) some of the uses for this swords is well, as a weapon. The rest being for the ardha, executions and gifting.

I mentioned specifically that its not made FOR gifting only to show that these swords had a context in which it was used.

Thanks for clarification Lofty. I guess I misinterpreted what you meant by these were not made FOR gifting......but it was OK to gift them. That makes sense that they were for actual use as accoutrement or in other required purposes
I also misunderstood the notes pertaining to the blade, I thought you were saying you had a feeling it was not European. I am curious about what other sources of this form blade might be.
Thanks,
Jim

[Kubur]

Hi Jim,
I think like you that this blade is early 19th c. or very late 18th c.
If the blade is not a mid or late 19th c. then I do not think that the blade entered the Red Sea by the South. And I do not think that's a colonial blade or a trade blade. Lotfy, I would like to think that your blade cames from Quseir. During the French expedition, the Egyptian port of Quseir was occupied by the Napoleonic army. Quseir was one of the major ottoman harbour on the Red Sea, directly in contact with Jeddah, for trade and pilgrimage. I guess some members will say that I'm crazy or a dreamer, but it's not impossible for me...

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Kubur for your response and for the most interesting explanation regarding the French possibilities. Very well explained, and while I am familiar with the Napoleonic expeditions I had known the detail about this port. Very well reasoned and certainly a plausible source as you note for French blades.
I still sense this as a Solingen blade and most probably of early 19th c. and at this point do not think it is French. As you know French blades of these times were usually inscribed on the blade spine, which would not have been removed by constant polishing in Arabian practice.

It is an interesting conundrum and I look forward to other thoughts and observations as always.

Best regards,
Jim

[A.alnakkas]

Hey Jim,

Indians and Yemenis copied European designs and often the flex is different on their swords. Also, I owned a Qajar blade with such features.

[A.alnakkas]

This is another saif in my collection with a blade that seemed European at first but its actually wootz.

[A.alnakkas]

Well, I facepalmed that I at some point, thought this is not a European blade. A friend just found a small proof mark on the blade, has a crown and a G under it.. Will try to photograph it