hmong knife from French Guiana

blue lander · 26th October 2014, 04:11 PM

It's definitely sharper than any store bought knife I've owned. I'm tempted to take it out to the yard and trim some branches but that crack in the hilt worries me. Snakewood is supposed to be one of the hardest/densest woods in the world, though.

kronckew · 27th October 2014, 05:04 PM

curiously, i just order a pair of enep/hmong knives from aranyik, thailand within the last hour

a 12.5 in. bladed enep one with a wood scabbard with braided rattan bands, 20 in. overall, the blade is 6 mm thick at the grip, distal taper down to 3.5 mm.

a 10.25 in. hmong/enep , in. 16 in. overall, 6mm blade tapering to 3mm. with a folded bamboo basket scabbard.

both 5160 steel with partial tangs. edges are convex ground & advertised as razor sharp. i have a pair of daab swords from the area that were differentially hardened in oil and have a distinct 'hamon', maybe these two will be as well.

look very much like yours above. your crack looks a bit big for filling with std superglue, maybe a high viscosity (gel) superglue, or a slow cure epoxy mixed with a bit of similar coloured sawdust may be better. if you turn it into a heavy user, it might be worth drilling a hole thru the bolster & inserting a steel pin thru it and the tang stub, which is likely quite short.

blue lander · 27th October 2014, 06:29 PM

I really like those daabs.

I know Thai knives/swords have a reputation for stubby tangs, but I just checked the tang on this Hmong knife and it goes nearly 2/3rds of the length of the hilt! It's about the exact length of the crack, which I'm sure is not a coincidence. I was thinking of filling the crack with gorilla glue since it'll expand into the crack.

kronckew · 27th October 2014, 06:37 PM

last time i did that i had foamy gorilla glue all over the place, definitely do not wait for it to harden before you trim it. i was gluing an alpine spike ferrule on the end of a fokos/ciupaga walking stick axe. the dollup of glue expanded and pushed the ferrule off. i removed some foam reseated it, and the foam pushed it off again. removed more foam, cut a shallow relief groove, reseated it and kept cleaning foam oozing out for about an hour. it finally stopped. that ferrule ain't coming off no how, no way, not ever

i barely managed to keep my hands from getting stuck to the axe shaft.

the longer sword has a 1 in. wide tang about 3/8" thick that goes all the way to just before the pommel, then has a short screw rod welded to it to hold the pommel nut that holds it all together., which is also a counterweight. the bolster is about 3/16 thick stainless steel. the shorter one was polished unlike the longer one which is etched to show the hamon, but is the same steel &heat treatment. it has two pins thru the tang that you can see, which again is about an inch wide and terminates threaded into the pommel.

they were made by serge cozun darbs, in aranyik, but he started having QC problems and no longer is on the interweb. the smiths in aranyik however still keep on making these swords and knives the same as they have done for centuries.

Robert · 27th October 2014, 06:53 PM

Blue lander, Before you use Gorilla glue or anything else please consider removing the blade, cleaning the tang or all rust (which is more than likely what caused the wood to split in the first place) gluing and clamping the wooden hilt back to its original state and then refitting the blade using your choice of adhesive to hold it in place. If this is something you plan on using on a regular basis, may I suggest using either epoxy or epoxy putty to permanently fix it in position. If you are not planning on using this for severe service than damar or cutlers adhesive might be a better choice. JMHO

Best,
Robert

blue lander · 27th October 2014, 07:11 PM

You're probably right. The blade was coated with something like cosmolene so it was rust free, but that wouldn't have kept rust from sneaking into the hilt. I'm also worried that some sort of "traditional" adhesive that might have dried up and cracked.

It sounds like gorilla glue would be a bad idea too.

kronckew · 27th October 2014, 07:28 PM

not sure what thais use, but khukuris use 'laha', also known as himalayan epoxy. it's a mix of tree resin, bees wax, powdered brick and (dried) water buffalo or yak dung. may also have hair mixed in. a similar mix is used to hold tulwar blades to their handles. it is thermo-setting, if you heat the grip to around the boiling point of water, it softens and the parts can be dislocated. wood/horn khukuri grips can be placed in a oven bag then held in a pot of boiling water till the stuff is soft enough to loosen. older khukuris with loose grips can be fixed by thus re-melting the laha.

it smells wonderful. if you are married, do NOT do this in the kitchen unless you want an immediate divorce.

there are recipes for laha, or western cultlers cement, or equivalents, if i recall, posted here on the fora. or google. some of the recipes are actually not smelly enough to alienate your significant other. if the knife is to be part of a collection, the more traditional goop would be better.

epoxy is essentially forever. heating it hot enough to melt it loose i suspect would permanently damage the wood.

27th October 2014, 05:04 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,240	curiously, i just order a pair of enep/hmong knives from aranyik, thailand within the last hour a 12.5 in. bladed enep one with a wood scabbard with braided rattan bands, 20 in. overall, the blade is 6 mm thick at the grip, distal taper down to 3.5 mm. a 10.25 in. hmong/enep , in. 16 in. overall, 6mm blade tapering to 3mm. with a folded bamboo basket scabbard. both 5160 steel with partial tangs. edges are convex ground & advertised as razor sharp. i have a pair of daab swords from the area that were differentially hardened in oil and have a distinct 'hamon', maybe these two will be as well. look very much like yours above. your crack looks a bit big for filling with std superglue, maybe a high viscosity (gel) superglue, or a slow cure epoxy mixed with a bit of similar coloured sawdust may be better. if you turn it into a heavy user, it might be worth drilling a hole thru the bolster & inserting a steel pin thru it and the tang stub, which is likely quite short. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 27th October 2014 at 05:33 PM.

27th October 2014, 06:37 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,240	last time i did that i had foamy gorilla glue all over the place, definitely do not wait for it to harden before you trim it. i was gluing an alpine spike ferrule on the end of a fokos/ciupaga walking stick axe. the dollup of glue expanded and pushed the ferrule off. i removed some foam reseated it, and the foam pushed it off again. removed more foam, cut a shallow relief groove, reseated it and kept cleaning foam oozing out for about an hour. it finally stopped. that ferrule ain't coming off no how, no way, not ever i barely managed to keep my hands from getting stuck to the axe shaft. the longer sword has a 1 in. wide tang about 3/8" thick that goes all the way to just before the pommel, then has a short screw rod welded to it to hold the pommel nut that holds it all together., which is also a counterweight. the bolster is about 3/16 thick stainless steel. the shorter one was polished unlike the longer one which is etched to show the hamon, but is the same steel &heat treatment. it has two pins thru the tang that you can see, which again is about an inch wide and terminates threaded into the pommel. they were made by serge cozun darbs, in aranyik, but he started having QC problems and no longer is on the interweb. the smiths in aranyik however still keep on making these swords and knives the same as they have done for centuries. Last edited by kronckew; 27th October 2014 at 06:48 PM.

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26th October 2014, 04:11 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It's definitely sharper than any store bought knife I've owned. I'm tempted to take it out to the yard and trim some branches but that crack in the hilt worries me. Snakewood is supposed to be one of the hardest/densest woods in the world, though.

27th October 2014, 06:29 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I really like those daabs. I know Thai knives/swords have a reputation for stubby tangs, but I just checked the tang on this Hmong knife and it goes nearly 2/3rds of the length of the hilt! It's about the exact length of the crack, which I'm sure is not a coincidence. I was thinking of filling the crack with gorilla glue since it'll expand into the crack.

27th October 2014, 06:53 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Blue lander, Before you use Gorilla glue or anything else please consider removing the blade, cleaning the tang or all rust (which is more than likely what caused the wood to split in the first place) gluing and clamping the wooden hilt back to its original state and then refitting the blade using your choice of adhesive to hold it in place. If this is something you plan on using on a regular basis, may I suggest using either epoxy or epoxy putty to permanently fix it in position. If you are not planning on using this for severe service than damar or cutlers adhesive might be a better choice. JMHO Best, Robert

27th October 2014, 07:11 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	You're probably right. The blade was coated with something like cosmolene so it was rust free, but that wouldn't have kept rust from sneaking into the hilt. I'm also worried that some sort of "traditional" adhesive that might have dried up and cracked. It sounds like gorilla glue would be a bad idea too.

27th October 2014, 07:28 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,240	not sure what thais use, but khukuris use 'laha', also known as himalayan epoxy. it's a mix of tree resin, bees wax, powdered brick and (dried) water buffalo or yak dung. may also have hair mixed in. a similar mix is used to hold tulwar blades to their handles. it is thermo-setting, if you heat the grip to around the boiling point of water, it softens and the parts can be dislocated. wood/horn khukuri grips can be placed in a oven bag then held in a pot of boiling water till the stuff is soft enough to loosen. older khukuris with loose grips can be fixed by thus re-melting the laha. it smells wonderful. if you are married, do NOT do this in the kitchen unless you want an immediate divorce. there are recipes for laha, or western cultlers cement, or equivalents, if i recall, posted here on the fora. or google. some of the recipes are actually not smelly enough to alienate your significant other. if the knife is to be part of a collection, the more traditional goop would be better. epoxy is essentially forever. heating it hot enough to melt it loose i suspect would permanently damage the wood.