16th-17th Battle Axes From German and Swiss Armories

[S.Workman]

Just have a close look at the mercernaries' faces, they way are portrayed in both illustrations:

There is the cool striding 'idealized' hyper patriotic, though at the same time ridiculously proud look as cold as ice - characteristic of the super heroic self-awareness of the 19th through the early 20th centuries; remember it was exactly that state of mind which lead to dictatorships in Europe, and two World Wars.

[/size][/font]Then, for contrast, study the weary wrinkled and mercilessly authentic portrayed face of the real, the actual old Landsknecht of the early 16th century: leaning on his footaxe, his right hand barely, and with no strength any more!, touching the grip of his Katzbalger - making us feel the burden of freedom (Kris Kristofferson!) too heavy for his shoulders, and his heart. He is completely consumpted, [font=Georgia][size=3]exhausted from his job: his hard life full of fights and wars finally brought him down. Imagine his body covered with scars - scars are lasting memories; nobody and nothing can ever erase, or heal them. They will be right there on his body, in his mind, in his soul, and in his heart. Until death will rescue, and save him.
The truth is that this mercenary is the personified and cruel outcome of what war is.
He is a winner, and he has proved it - by surviving.

These axes are cool, this post is great, and this is a hell of an observation. If you don't mind my asking, what health problem do you have that is putting you on the skids? Sorry for the weird appearance of this post, the quote feature is not a huge fan of highlighted material. Or maybe I am just confused.

[Shakethetrees]

I got this about twenty five years ago in Normandy, in a small town I cannot remember as I was just passing through on a day trip from Paris.

It is inscribed "YL" or "VL", and is a little over 19 inches along the top from the edge to the heel, and is 15 inches from the heel to the butt of the haft, which appears to be oak and full of worm holes.

The haft, or what's left of it, is loose in the socket. It is roughly pentagonal at the socket.

The form appears to be very old, but I am interested in hearing what everyone has to say.

[kronckew]

haft is a tad short for an executioner's axe

(i suspect it was a teeny bit longer in it's working life)

there is a very similar one on ebay at the moment. haftless. marked "AD" on one side, "CP" on the other. sadly we cannot discuss it, so no picture. try googleing images for 'executioners axe'.

here's another. hired him for my quickie divorce. a lot cheaper than going thru the courts as henry the 8th found.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by kronckew

haft is a tad short for an executioner's axe

(i suspect it was a teeny bit longer in it's working life)

there is a very similar one on ebay at the moment. haftless. marked "AD" on one side, "CP" on the other. sadly we cannot discuss it, so no picture. try googleing images for 'executioners axe'.

here's another. hired him for my quickie divorce. a lot cheaper than going thru the courts as henry the 8th found.

Exactly, but it is much too short for a battle axe, or a working man's tool as well.
I guess we realize that it is not the first, original haft; the proportions should, of course, be about equal to the axe that used to be mine - see opening post of this thread, and attachment here.

The length of the original haft of that fine axe was, of course, about equal to the overall length of that item, which was 119.7.cm.


m

[drac2k]

I've had this hatchet for a while: I always thought it was just a wood working ax, mainly because of the "cross," slot in the front, which I thought was for pulling out nails, but I saw a similar provision on some of the pictured battle axes.I also thought that because the back of the hatchet was flat , it couldn't be used for battle, but once again some of the pictured ones were also flat.
Can someone confirm that this is indeed a wood working ax ?

[estcrh]

Great information on European weapons as usual. I have had a question about a particular axe since I first saw it, the owner says that it is a "Frankish axe" oak shaft 31.5", axe head 6.5" x 4.75", overall length 33.5", 6 lbs, I have not had much luck finding a similar one, any chance that this is any were near a correct description or even a type of axe that would have been used in battle? Any help would be appreciated.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Great information on European weapons as usual. I have had a question about a particular axe since I first saw it, the owner says that it is a "Frankish axe" oak shaft 31.5", axe head 6.5" x 4.75", overall length 33.5", 6 lbs, I have not had much luck finding a similar one, any chance that this is any were near a correct description or even a type of axe that would have been used in battle? Any help would be appreciated.

first impression is that it looks more like a horseman's axe to me, persia/india. doesn't look frankish (french) to me. could be wrong tho.

are you sure it's 6 lbs. (2.7 kilos) seems a lot.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by drac2k

...
Can someone confirm that this is indeed a wood working ax ?

nope. tho it could be used as such.

many soldiers battle axes were not only used as weapons, but as general tools around the camp. chopping wood, making defences, etc. the flat (or a poll) would be useful for driving in tent stakes, as well as for, as in agincourt, driving angled anti-cavalry stakes in front of archers. some of the designs were purely weapons of course, for the higher ranks i suspect.

soldiers hate carrying stuff they don't need, so why carry a tool axe AND a weapon-only axe if you do not have to. of course if you had a horse, you could have it carry & you'd likely have a groom or squire that would have a more general purpose axe. fixed defences like castles and walled cities also could have armouries with heavier more flamboyant non-tool axes. militia, and/or the levy of cannon fodder poorly trained troops would likely bring the axe or bill hook they used daily at home.

i doubt the cross was used as a nail-puller. more of a decoration.

woodworking axes tended to be well bearded, with enough room behind the beard to allow the hand to be choked up well behind the blade, for finer control. they of course could also be used as weapons.

carpenter's hewing axes can have the blade offset to one side or the other, off centre, chisel ground, to allow for easier squaring of the cuts when making square beams. less likely to be used as a weapon. sometimes even the handles are offset to the head to allow hand clearance when hewing the sides of larger objects while still presenting the edge parallel to the object...

anyhow, yours looks more like a general purpose weapon, an archer's axe or infantryman's. the handle looks a bit short & doesn't quite fit the head. i think it's a later replacement.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by drac2k

I've had this hatchet for a while: I always thought it was just a wood working ax, mainly because of the "cross," slot in the front, which I thought was for pulling out nails, but I saw a similar provision on some of the pictured battle axes.I also thought that because the back of the hatchet was flat , it couldn't be used for battle, but once again some of the pictured ones were also flat.
Can someone confirm that this is indeed a wood working ax ?

Hi there,

The haft of that axe is 99 per cent ashwood, as it is, like I said in my opening post, the longest lasting because longest-fibered and consequently most durable, type of wood.
Next to it comes oak.

Experience, though, has taught me over four decades that ash was the preferred sort of wood used for hafted weapons in the Germanic areas, and from the 13th through 17th centuries.
As closely as possible, I have researched what must have been thousands of 13th-17th century hafted weapons, in hundreds of museums and private collections, plus previewings of items with the most important international auction houses, and after taking more than 280,000 analog photos.

For more information, and for important and finely preserved arms in
The Michael Trömner Collection

please also cf. my threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=pikes+swiss

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pikes

In some very rare cases, ash was even used for stocking wall guns in the early 16th century - instead of oak.

Please see my threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...arian+kronburg

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...arian+kronburg


Best,
Michael Trömner

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

I got this about twenty five years ago in Normandy, in a small town I cannot remember as I was just passing through on a day trip from Paris.

It is inscribed "YL" or "VL", and is a little over 19 inches along the top from the edge to the heel, and is 15 inches from the heel to the butt of the haft, which appears to be oak and full of worm holes.

The haft, or what's left of it, is loose in the socket. It is roughly pentagonal at the socket.

The form appears to be very old, but I am interested in hearing what everyone has to say.

Hi Shakethetress,


You sure shook - no; not just the trees: YOU shook the WOODS, the very moment you spotted and acquired that fine battle axe, manufactured within the (then) borders of the Germanic areas (German: in den deutschen Sprachgebieten) during the High Gothic period, 13th to early 14th century!
For its Viking stylistic formal predecessor, please cf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_axe
(the one on top - see attachment).

This item is of a very rare and elegantly wrought type mostly, and wrongly, just termed a 'beheading axe' in English; it was far more than that, though - both actually and originally. Most of all it. was a battle axe, made for the fight, and meant for the killing - when it all came down, when it was man to man, face to face, axe to ... whatsoever.

CONGRATULATIONS, you made it!
It has been, and will be yours - for decades.
It belonged to generations before our time, for about 700 years, and it will belong to somebody else after it being with you.
All that collectors can ever be is just curators - for a moment in time, which is our lives.

So we should be glad, and responsible, for being granted that chance.

The worst kind of curators like us will turn out to be the actual and final caretakers! of those soulless but innocent items.
We can literally rape them, acid-celan them, ruine them, dematerialize them, finalize them.
Just because we can.
Just because we think that they are ours.
They are not.
They belong to the universal cultual heritage of mankind.


If you feel that what is still left of an originally much longer haft may have been with the head for a very long span of time, leave it as it is, or lengthen it.
The original wood should be either ash or oak, and you should use the very same type.

You can make it whole again.
You can heal it.
You both earned it, the axe and you.


And please do send as good and detailed photos of that item as you can take. If you wish to, just send them privately.
I'm looking forward to seeing them.

I will also search for images of actuallc comparable axe heads but they are very rare to find.

All I can do for the moment being are two attachments concerning one of its typological and stylistic followers, dating to the Latest Gothic period of ca. 1500; that item was sold with Hermann Historica's, Munich, 19 October 2005.
That head, of course, was in a state of excavation, crudely cleaned and overpolished.
Nothing I would never even consider to touch.


Best as ever,
Michael

[Shakethetrees]

I have thought about re-halting this axe for some time, but I have never settled on any particular form.

I've seen dozens of later axes with their hafts that can have a slight downward drop to the pommel, but I think these are later and somehow wouldn't be appropriate. And, I also suspect a lot are replacements.

A lot of old illustrations from later periods are a little vague on this detail.

So, any assistance is appreciated. I will post images once the project has been completed.

I believe the existing wood is maybe 200 years old. It is not secure in the socket, and, while without a doubt it was hand cut, it just looks too fresh to be as old as the head.