A French officer's fighting sword-comments please

[M ELEY]

Adding to my quasi-naval collection is this very nice French officer's fighting sword, circa 1790-1800. The pivoting knuckle bow/guard styling appeared to be an affectation popular during this time period and there were other variant swords I've seen with the swivel guards, all French.

This particular model of sword was popular and carried by infantry, marine and naval officers respectfully. The maritime attachment is more than substantiated with its presence in naval collections and volumes. In particular, Gilkerson's 'Boarders Away', pg 124. There is one in the Greenwich Maritime Museum that was featured in Annis' monumental 'Swords for Sea Service'. That amazing specimen (plate 97, Sword# 303) was a direct captured sword with fine provenance. It was carried by Captain Louis L'Heritier of L'Hercule (active 1798), captured by the mortally wounded Captain Alexander Hood of the H.M.S. Mars after their battle on 21 April 1798.
Of note is that the ones attributed to naval usage all seem to have brass wires wrap or banding.

[M ELEY]

The reason I bring up the wire wrapping is I personally think it helps point to those with wire binding as being naval. Another type commonly seen has a leather wrapping, which was obviously not typically used on sea-service swords. Here is an old thread from SwordForum that discusses this type sword with the examples of which I speak-

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...fficer-s-sword

[fernando]

Hi Capitão,
The French call it garde tournante (turning guard) if you care to browse on these swords.
I almost bought (swapped) one the other day, from a local private collector.
He has a couple of them and pretends the officer version is more elaborate, as shown here.

.

[fernando]

... And with the plain pommel you have them with either brass and iron guard:

.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for sharing this one Mark!!! and especially for the references and detail giving such outstanding perspective on these interesting hilt swords. I always find interesting notes like that on the wire wrap fascinating nuances which help so much in proper identification of swords.
Than you Nando for adding this also interesting example. It seems like these 'swivel' hilts existed on other swords as well, perhaps it was Polish examples? but cannot recall for sure .
In any case it is these kinds of entries that make this forum such a valued archive, not necessarily seeking opinions or in query, but simply sharing a very nice example and sharing researched data . Nicely done and much appreciated!!! ")
Im looking forward to someday when you open the Eley Maritime Museum!!! I'll set the GPS on this rig to be there Cap'n Mark!!!

[M ELEY]

Thank you so much, gentlemen, for coming in on this one!

Fernando, excelllent examples that you posted! Not much on the net about this (other than that sword forum thread attached), so nice to see other examples. Actually, I do agree with your colleague that the lion hilt swivel might prove to be the more esthetic piece! I like both of them very much!
So, are you going to add one to your collection? Interesting the various slight subtleties, such as the differences in four-slot guards, iron vs brass (iron being more infantry model, perhaps?), copper/brass wire vs leather. Even the garde Tournante (thanks for that term, 'Nando!) has differences, with your examples being wider with the loops incorporated into it. Mine has scalloped edging to the rotating knuckle bow, absent on some pieces. Some have a plain quillon, some a raised shell pattern. Even the guard-locking mechanism varies between types, as does the blade type, apparently. I'm told some were straighter, had blued/etched blades, etc. Mine has the traditional 'marine type' wedge blade. No-nonsense, wouldn't want to get hit by it on deck!!

Hello, fellow Cap'n Jim! Yes, I see the day I'll have me a little pirate museum or some such! I'll keep you informed! I thought perhaps there were other types of swivel-type guards, just hadn't seen much covered in any of my references. If you stumble across any pics, please post if you get the chance!
I'm wondering if the French were the oroginal designers and others followed suite?

[Jim McDougall]

You bet Mark, Ill keep an eye out here in the Bookmobile, I think it was line drawing in one of those East European refs..Austro-Hungarian swords. The French did have quite a bit of influence on many forms throughout these areas it seems, just as their influences in fashion, language and culture set the standards in many courts.

[M ELEY]

Thanks, Jim. This sword wasn't my particular style, but I added it to the collection because I think it shows a fascinating 'crossroads' in sword history. Early naval pieces carried by officers were typically anything they could get their hands on. As maritime weapons progressed (as you well know! I'm just laying this out as to my interest), officers began to carry fancy hangers. The early hunting swords developed into the cheaper, plain cutlasses(carried and used by the common sailor). Officers then began carrying a wider range of offer's type swords, often not even naval in origin (Annis points out infantry, cavalry, etc, with nautical connections). This very showy sword is one of those fancy types that were still very much functional in battle. Most 19th century offer's swords seemed purely dress with rare exceptions. Smallswords, fraternal swords and such were what the upper ranks started wearing. I think pieces like this are right at that period before function became obsolescent to sign of rank-

[fernando]

Hi Capitão
In googling the net on GARDE TOURNANTE, i find inumerous entries; would it be a question of different browsers ?
Most or all those entries are from French sites, one assuring that the garde tournante is a French exclusive version ... for what is worth, Jim.
Also from what i read, this type of sword equiped various branches... Volunteers and Gendarmerie in the least. I saw one with the lion pommel, said to be from an officer of the Volunteers, in which units they were obliged to commission their swords, therefore having great liberty to order multiple variations. This would explain the many different examples we see out there; after all, a practice often observed in many other cases/countries in the period. During the (French) Revolution numerous Volunteer units were formed to reinforce the regular army from the 'Ancient Regime'. This said example is reputed to have belonged to an officer in the Overseas Provinces.
The example i saw with an iron guard is said to be from the Gendarmerie.
Officers and sub-Officers are mentioned as being these swords owners, never soldiers ... again for what is worth.
Here is another one with an impecable grip wiring.

.

[fernando]

And i've got news for you, Capitão ... although a bit surprising.
It seems as this type of sabre has also equiped the French Navy.
I have spotted the example in the pictures attached, mentioned by the owner as a Navy example, being the same as the one figuring in the work L' OUVRAGE "LES SABRES PORTES PAR L' ARMEE FRANCAISE" DE JEAN LHOSTE ET PATRICK RESEK , page 265 picture 475.
With a 77 cms. blade, this is a most most atypical sword, as its guard is in iron.
Go figure; a navy sabre with an iron guard.

.

[M ELEY]

Iron sword?!!! Say it isn't so!

Actually, iron swords were still popular during the time period, but usually of the cutlass variety and they were blackened with paint (or tar!) to prevent rusting. Prior to the popularity of brass hilts, iron hilted hangers and hunting cuttoes were quite popular with officers. I'm just happy to see once again the variations of this pattern and the documentation of naval usage. 'Nando, you were right about searching under 'garde tournante'! Pulls up all manner of information. Interesting that there are few sites outside of the French pages covering this type of sword (our Forum one of the scant few). I understand it being a French sword with said interests on those sites, but if one searches for shiavonna, for instance, you don't have to go to Italian pages!! Thanks again, Jim and Fernando, for your input and especially the pics! Iron sword, indeed!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... I understand it being a French sword with said interests on those sites, but if one searches for shiavonna, for instance, you don't have to go to Italian pages!!...

Well, while charismatic swords like schiavonas became an international affair, garde tournantes stayed a domestic issue .