Two shamanic Tonkin knives

[Jim McDougall]

Detlef, thank you for sharing these very attractive knives, as well as for the perfect descriptions and excellent photography with details.
While I know very little on the weapons of SE Asia, I have always found the esoterica most interesting, so am looking forward to learning more on these as well.
Meanwhile I have taken some time to discover what I can, with emphasis on trying to confirm if these are indeed shamanic implements as suggested. It would seem of course quite likely as they are not sharpened, and it seems the antlers are something often associated with shamanic ritual .

Interestingly, I have seen American Indian knives using antlers in this manner for hilts, and it seems they were associated with chiefs or medicine men (indeed shamanic). I also recall from a book titled "The Mind in the Cave" discussion on shamans, and cave art images from France which showed prehistoric shamans wearing antlers . From anthropological POV it is fascinating to see these kinds of symbolic elements transmitted through so many cultures.

It would seem that Tonkin (North Vietnam) tribes may well be the provenance for these but clearly they could be from various tribes and regions throughout these SE Asian areas. Apparently the animist beliefs and rituals in Vietnam became absorbed into those of Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism, and it is indicated that most of the shamanist duties were taken over by Buddhist priests ( "Lost Fighting Arts of Vietnam", Haha Lung, 2006) with the arrival of Chinese culture .

It may be presumed that these knives were used as ritual implements in much the same manner as the 'phurbu' (often termed 'ghost dagger') in Tibetan Buddhist ritual. These implements are used symbolically against malevolent forces and demons .

I found this link to 'Shamanic Arts of Vietnam' and possibly this site might offer more inroads into whether these actually are Vietnamese shamanic implements .

http://www.54traditions.com.vn/index...d=10&Itemid=15

Looking forward to more from others on these very nice acquisitions!

[Sajen]

Thank you as well Jim! And special for your as usual good thoughts about them. You are correct, they are not sharpened so is a ritual use very probable. And I agree with you that the antler hilts seems to have a talismanic purpose. See also the other knife from this area I have posted some time ago: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=antler, the handle from this knife is most probable from the same antler as this both. I will try to contact the people fom the given link, maybe they are able to provide more informations.

Regards,
Detlef

[Battara]

Thank you so much for posting these. I know nothing about these but am interested in anything shamanic (personal and professional reasons).

[Andrew]

Definitely mainland SEA.

The curved example is likely Vietnamese--Chinese motifs on the handle and blade make me lean towards that.

The other example strikes me a Laotian or northern Thai.

Regardless, nice examples.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Definitely mainland SEA.

The curved example is likely Vietnamese--Chinese motifs on the handle and blade make me lean towards that.

The other example strikes me a Laotian or northern Thai.

Regardless, nice examples.

Thank you Andrew, do you agree that they are shamanic knives? And do have seen before similar knives? I am really curious to see something similar since I never have seen such knives before.

Regards,
Detlef

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Andrew, do you agree that they are shamanic knives? And do have seen before similar knives? I am really curious to see something similar since I never have seen such knives before.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef. I have seen similar, small knives, although not like the one with the curved blade--that is unusual in my personal experience.

The examples I've handled and collected with antler handles/pommels are from Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Burma. For reasons unknown even to myself, I've never delved into Vietnamese weapons. I tend to think of them as more closely related to Chinese weapons than the other cultures in continental SEA, my main area of interest.

The curved one may be ritualistic, or may be purely decorative--I have no idea.

The other one, with the square tip, could be a type of "priest knife" similar to those carried by devout Buddhists in Thailand. It, also, reminds me of some betel nut knives I've seen. Any signs that it has ever had a sharp edge?

Best,
A

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Hi Detlef. I have seen similar, small knives, although not like the one with the curved blade--that is unusual in my personal experience.

The examples I've handled and collected with antler handles/pommels are from Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Burma. For reasons unknown even to myself, I've never delved into Vietnamese weapons. I tend to think of them as more closely related to Chinese weapons than the other cultures in continental SEA, my main area of interest.

The curved one may be ritualistic, or may be purely decorative--I have no idea.

The other one, with the square tip, could be a type of "priest knife" similar to those carried by devout Buddhists in Thailand. It, also, reminds me of some betel nut knives I've seen. Any signs that it has ever had a sharp edge?

Best,
A

Hi Andrew,

thank you again! Both knives have clearly a spine and edge but on both the edge isn't sharp. By the small one with steel blade it could be that it was sharp at any time but I doubt. And I don't know how the betel nut is used in this area. In India and Java/Bali the betel nut is used dry and so as hard nut, in some other parts of Indonesia the nut is used as young nut, so it is very soft (I have tried it in both ways and prefer the dry one ). What I want to say is that the small knife could easily be used for young betel nuts but no way for dry/hard ones. By the patinated blade I can imagine that it was maybe used for cutting young nuts.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Thank you so much for posting these. I know nothing about these but am interested in anything shamanic (personal and professional reasons).

My enjoy Jose!