Another Moro sword for ID - Page 2

MABAGANI · 6th November 2005, 06:35 PM

scottie rip, ask sulu bout "cocky"...czechov beam me up?

nechesh · 6th November 2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

scottie rip, ask sulu bout "cocky"...czechov beam me up?

LOL!

Ian · 6th November 2005, 06:59 PM

Guys:

Let's cut slovak some slack here. English is not his first language, and he may not know some of you have been contributing to this forum for several years and have a deep knowledge of the Moro kris.

Welcome to the Forum, slovak. There is actually a considerable amount of information and pictures of Moro kris to be found on these pages, which can be accessed through the search engine, including information about the straight-bladed version of the Moro kris which is sometimes called a sundang in the local culture (reference to this term can be found in Robert Cato's book, Moro Swords).

We have quite a passionate group of Philippine weapons enthusiasts on this forum, and I hope you will be able to share your experience and knowledge with us.

Ian.

MABAGANI · 6th November 2005, 07:40 PM

I didn't read any apologies for the racial stereotype or moderators removing the statement, that was in plain english. btw my apologies for the "cocky" jk and no disrespect to czechs and scots, just an old treky fan and wanted an alien retreat from us lowly humans

slovak · 6th November 2005, 07:50 PM

Thank you very much Ian. I appreciate your kind words. At last, one honourable individual.

I'm not backing up my reasons because i dont see that i need to. Think why. It is soooo.. this forum. Just look at this thread, my way and your way is the wrong way. (yeah.. u will said yours is the right one). Im using arrogance against itself and as usual, it will cause problems. So many problems can be avoided with a little understanding an patience. (Now u can sing the song - We are the world)

Ian · 6th November 2005, 08:24 PM

Guys:

I'm locking this thread pending review of some of the comments by the Moderators.

Ian.

Ian · 6th November 2005, 11:30 PM

Several comments have been removed from earlier posts because they have been deemed offensive by the staff.

Ian.

zelbone · 7th November 2005, 03:24 AM

Wow!

I didn't realize my statement of calling these swords a sundang would bring a maelstorm of feedback...

It looks like we have a new "expert" on this forum...

It's obvious Mr. Slovak is unfamiliar with Philippine weaponry of Christian, Muslim, and anismist origin. And even more obvious, unfamiliarity with the various dialects of Philippine languages as well as the history and culture of the Philippines. The term "sundang" is used in almost every dialect across the Philippine archipelego to refer to a long bladed weapon used as either a weapon or tool. This refers to the bolos in the north to the krises of the south. As I said, calling these weapons (including the odd barong-like sword that started this thread and the T'boli hilt kris mentioned later) a "sundang" would be a safe and appropriate term that wouldn't offend any Filipino....Ilocano, Tagalog, Visayan, T'boli, Maranao, Bagobo, etc....

However, I find it amusingly funny that the term "sundang" which is universal in the Philippines to be offensive to Mr. Slovak....who obviously isn't Pinoy...di ba?

It's obvious our new expert in sandata knows more than the rest us; having to use racial comments and appear arrogant...or what the Filipinos would call "mayabang." But I'm not here to debate our new expert...there's no point. I made my statement before to call these swords a sundang to be "safe" since it's a general term used for any long bladed weapon or tool in the Philippines that wouldn't offend any Filipino. But it seems the non-Filipinos are the ones offended. I rarely post here anymore to avoid these debates and confrontations. I haven't even shared the new knowledge I learned in the month I spent across the Philippines recently. That would open up a new can a worms and maybe cause further discord. It's best to keep that knowledge to myself....to avoid conflict with so called "experts."

...experts like Mr. Slovak

Besides, debating over swords and sword terms is fruitless...especially sitting in the comforts of your home. Go to where they are still made and used...and truly learn.

Mr. Slovak debating you would be pointless. Your narrow viewpoint and arrogance would be a hinderance to you. It would be like you coming to a fight with a fork....and me armed with a sundang....tagain kita!

Rick · 7th November 2005, 04:21 AM

Hi Zel , Mr. 'slovak' has been dismissed .
I sincerely hope you will continue to post .

We do our best to keep the place swept .

LabanTayo · 7th November 2005, 04:53 AM

Dang, I leave home for a few hours and the house gets cleaned!!!!!

Thanks Rick and Ian.

But who's going to clean the windows??
Thanks to Nechesh and others for defending the cause.

Now, my opinion of the swords that started this throwdown.
1. Its a newer made sword to resemble a Barong with the locals twist of style added to it. I think Palawan because of the curvy lines or Basilan because of the belt notch carved into the scabbard, just like Pira scabbards, but I'm sure Zamboanga can have a better opinion, considering his location.

2. Definetely a T'boli interpretation of a Moro Kalis Tulid, with not much attention to detail in the gangya and 'gandik' area.

Just my uneducated opinion that could be way of base.

zamboanga · 7th November 2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Zel , Mr. 'slovak' has been dismissed .
I sincerely hope you will continue to post .

We do our best to keep the place swept .

Mabuhay ka! and the rest of the mods

Ian · 7th November 2005, 05:22 AM

Walang anuman

Ian.

zamboanga · 7th November 2005, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

Now, my opinion of the swords that started this throwdown.
1. Its a newer made sword to resemble a Barong with the locals twist of style added to it. I think Palawan because of the curvy lines or Basilan because of the belt notch carved into the scabbard, just like Pira scabbards, but I'm sure Zamboanga can have a better opinion, considering his location.

Hi LabanTayo,

I agree with you that it is a newly made sword. I'm sure it's maranao-made and I agree with Battara's earlier comment that it is made for the market.

My tausug and yakan friends are thrown in a frenzy whenever they see these on the market. They don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Battara · 7th November 2005, 06:57 AM

First to the moderators - salamat po!

Secondly, Zelbone, I do wish you would post more. I and others with whom I speak learn much from you and others like yourself on this forum.

Third, Zamboanga, I'm curious what the Yakan and Tausugs do say about these that come on the market.

zamboanga · 7th November 2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

First to the moderators - salamat po!

Secondly, Zelbone, I do wish you would post more. I and others with whom I speak learn much from you and others like yourself on this forum.

Third, Zamboanga, I'm curious what the Yakan and Tausugs do say about these that come on the market.

Maybe I can sum up their thoughts as follows:

To them these are simply barong wannabees. The blade profile is wrong; the puhan profile is wrong; no ukkil on the puhan; the blade is usually thin and not laminated, etc. And mostly of all, these are not made or produced by people who are historically associated with the barong.

In essence: paraded as barongs, now that makes them laugh. To attract such a high price because of this pretension, that makes them cry.

Battara · 7th November 2005, 11:20 AM

Thank you, Zamboanga. This is helpful. I have noticed that same thing in this description, and wonder about the types I have seen that are so narrow (and thin) that I question that they are truly barongs. Some call these sipput, though I cannot say that I have examined all of this type. Certainly those similar to what we are discussing are not what I have called "legitimate" but in respect to those who have objected, I don't use the term "tourist" in public.

MABAGANI · 7th November 2005, 09:54 PM

Zel, holding back? any new info on the demonhead "sundang"...lol

LabanTayo · 7th November 2005, 11:49 PM

Mabagani,
The news is that they're calling it sundang in the south, north and middle, and sometimes in hong kong, they call it siao pao.
They used to be called talibong in the mid 40's and bolo in the 70's.
Before 1898, they were called espada.
I hope that clarifies everything for ya.

btw, that was total sarcasm......

themorningstar · 8th November 2005, 01:57 AM

"Do not try and say its a sundang. That's impossible. Instead ... only try to realize the truth."
"What truth?"
"There is no sundang."

-sorry... i couldn't resist.... plus zel took my line....

but honestly.... it really would just be accepted as a sundang...

p.s. apologies for the matrix-like comment

6th November 2005, 07:50 PM	#35
slovak Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5	Thank you very much Ian. I appreciate your kind words. At last, one honourable individual. I'm not backing up my reasons because i dont see that i need to. Think why. It is soooo.. this forum. Just look at this thread, my way and your way is the wrong way. (yeah.. u will said yours is the right one). Im using arrogance against itself and as usual, it will cause problems. So many problems can be avoided with a little understanding an patience. (Now u can sing the song - We are the world) Last edited by Ian; 6th November 2005 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Removal of offensive language

6th November 2005, 08:24 PM	#36
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	Under review Guys: I'm locking this thread pending review of some of the comments by the Moderators. Ian.

6th November 2005, 11:30 PM	#37
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	After review by EEWRS Several comments have been removed from earlier posts because they have been deemed offensive by the staff. Ian.

7th November 2005, 04:53 AM	#40
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	Dang, I leave home for a few hours and the house gets cleaned!!!!! Thanks Rick and Ian. But who's going to clean the windows?? Thanks to Nechesh and others for defending the cause. Now, my opinion of the swords that started this throwdown. 1. Its a newer made sword to resemble a Barong with the locals twist of style added to it. I think Palawan because of the curvy lines or Basilan because of the belt notch carved into the scabbard, just like Pira scabbards, but I'm sure Zamboanga can have a better opinion, considering his location. 2. Definetely a T'boli interpretation of a Moro Kalis Tulid, with not much attention to detail in the gangya and 'gandik' area. Just my uneducated opinion that could be way of base. Last edited by LabanTayo; 7th November 2005 at 05:06 AM.

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6th November 2005, 06:35 PM	#31
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	scottie rip, ask sulu bout "cocky"...czechov beam me up?

6th November 2005, 06:59 PM	#33
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	Guys: Let's cut slovak some slack here. English is not his first language, and he may not know some of you have been contributing to this forum for several years and have a deep knowledge of the Moro kris. Welcome to the Forum, slovak. There is actually a considerable amount of information and pictures of Moro kris to be found on these pages, which can be accessed through the search engine, including information about the straight-bladed version of the Moro kris which is sometimes called a sundang in the local culture (reference to this term can be found in Robert Cato's book, Moro Swords). We have quite a passionate group of Philippine weapons enthusiasts on this forum, and I hope you will be able to share your experience and knowledge with us. Ian.

6th November 2005, 07:40 PM	#34
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	I didn't read any apologies for the racial stereotype or moderators removing the statement, that was in plain english. btw my apologies for the "cocky" jk and no disrespect to czechs and scots, just an old treky fan and wanted an alien retreat from us lowly humans

7th November 2005, 03:24 AM	#38
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Wow! I didn't realize my statement of calling these swords a sundang would bring a maelstorm of feedback... It looks like we have a new "expert" on this forum... It's obvious Mr. Slovak is unfamiliar with Philippine weaponry of Christian, Muslim, and anismist origin. And even more obvious, unfamiliarity with the various dialects of Philippine languages as well as the history and culture of the Philippines. The term "sundang" is used in almost every dialect across the Philippine archipelego to refer to a long bladed weapon used as either a weapon or tool. This refers to the bolos in the north to the krises of the south. As I said, calling these weapons (including the odd barong-like sword that started this thread and the T'boli hilt kris mentioned later) a "sundang" would be a safe and appropriate term that wouldn't offend any Filipino....Ilocano, Tagalog, Visayan, T'boli, Maranao, Bagobo, etc.... However, I find it amusingly funny that the term "sundang" which is universal in the Philippines to be offensive to Mr. Slovak....who obviously isn't Pinoy...di ba? It's obvious our new expert in sandata knows more than the rest us; having to use racial comments and appear arrogant...or what the Filipinos would call "mayabang." But I'm not here to debate our new expert...there's no point. I made my statement before to call these swords a sundang to be "safe" since it's a general term used for any long bladed weapon or tool in the Philippines that wouldn't offend any Filipino. But it seems the non-Filipinos are the ones offended. I rarely post here anymore to avoid these debates and confrontations. I haven't even shared the new knowledge I learned in the month I spent across the Philippines recently. That would open up a new can a worms and maybe cause further discord. It's best to keep that knowledge to myself....to avoid conflict with so called "experts." ...experts like Mr. Slovak Besides, debating over swords and sword terms is fruitless...especially sitting in the comforts of your home. Go to where they are still made and used...and truly learn. Mr. Slovak debating you would be pointless. Your narrow viewpoint and arrogance would be a hinderance to you. It would be like you coming to a fight with a fork....and me armed with a sundang....tagain kita!

7th November 2005, 04:21 AM	#39
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Zel , Mr. 'slovak' has been dismissed . I sincerely hope you will continue to post . We do our best to keep the place swept .

7th November 2005, 05:22 AM	#42
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	Walang anuman Ian.

7th November 2005, 06:57 AM	#44
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	First to the moderators - salamat po! Secondly, Zelbone, I do wish you would post more. I and others with whom I speak learn much from you and others like yourself on this forum. Third, Zamboanga, I'm curious what the Yakan and Tausugs do say about these that come on the market.

7th November 2005, 11:20 AM	#46
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Thank you, Zamboanga. This is helpful. I have noticed that same thing in this description, and wonder about the types I have seen that are so narrow (and thin) that I question that they are truly barongs. Some call these sipput, though I cannot say that I have examined all of this type. Certainly those similar to what we are discussing are not what I have called "legitimate" but in respect to those who have objected, I don't use the term "tourist" in public.

7th November 2005, 09:54 PM	#47
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Zel, holding back? any new info on the demonhead "sundang"...lol

7th November 2005, 11:49 PM	#48
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	Mabagani, The news is that they're calling it sundang in the south, north and middle, and sometimes in hong kong, they call it siao pao. They used to be called talibong in the mid 40's and bolo in the 70's. Before 1898, they were called espada. I hope that clarifies everything for ya. btw, that was total sarcasm......

8th November 2005, 01:57 AM	#49
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	"Do not try and say its a sundang. That's impossible. Instead ... only try to realize the truth." "What truth?" "There is no sundang." -sorry... i couldn't resist.... plus zel took my line.... but honestly.... it really would just be accepted as a sundang... p.s. apologies for the matrix-like comment