hilt for comment

Marcokeris · 28th November 2013, 03:17 PM

By the pic the white hilt seems made by moose horn

Jean · 28th November 2013, 06:41 PM

AFAIK the inner core of sperm whale tooth (made from dentin) has a yellowish colour and shows concentric rings but of course this may vary from one specimen to another and depending on the age of the piece.
The 2 attached Bugis hilts from Sulawesi are made from sperm whale ivory I think (other opinions are welcome) and they show a deep yellow patination.
Regards
PS: See the yellow core of the largest (broken) tooth shown by Ganja Iras

A. G. Maisey · 28th November 2013, 08:23 PM

Jean, I have quite a few whale's tooth carvings, a couple are scrimshaws, the others are ornaments, and that is apart from hilts, I also have a number of whale's teeth.

I've just gone and had a look at a few of these. I think it would be true to say that the core of the tooth patinates to a dark yellow, but in a freshly carved tooth without patination this is not the case. Close examination of a freshly carved tooth --- one that has been carved during , say, the last ten years --- does reveal a very, very slight tint of yellow, but not the deep yellow that can be seen in an old carving or an old tooth. You can see this quite clearly in the tips of the group of uncarved teeth above:- the tip, where the core shows through is a deep yellow, the outside of the tooth is whitish --- or as you say, the core of the broken large tooth.

Many years ago I bought a lot of whales teeth that had been recovered from the sea bed in Western Australia. In the time when whaling was acknowledged as a legitimate activity, a whaling station in the area had dumped its rubbish into the sea at this spot. In the 1960's or 1970's, I forget which, divers recovered these teeth and at that time there were a lot of them for sale in Australia. I've been getting them carved and scrimshawed ever since. I also used a few for knife handles when I was involved in custom making.

Jean · 29th November 2013, 08:39 AM

Thank you Alan and then the new Ganesha hilt from Ganja Iras could be made from a recently collected sperm whale tooth and will patinate with time.

For our reference would you identify my 2 Buginese hilts (which are about 100 years old I think) as made from sperm whale tooth or not, or which other alternative?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 1st December 2013, 12:31 PM

Jean, I'm not as clever as a lot of people seem to be when it comes to identifying materials on the basis of a picture on my monitor.

I need to have the item in my hand, and more often than not, a 3X loupe screwed into my eye.

I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to have a punt of what your hilts may or may not be. Even with an item in my hand, on a couple of occasions I have very nearly purchase synthetic material as ivory, only my extreme caution and examination under magnification in good sunlight saved me. Name material from a screen pic? No thanks. Sorry.

Ganja Iras · 1st December 2013, 01:59 PM

This is my ganesha hilt ,made of ivory.
Carved in lombok
T.Q

Ganja iras

David · 1st December 2013, 04:17 PM

Ganja Iras' 3 images of his ganesha hilt point to one of the many problems involved with making identifications from photos on the internet. These are shot either under two different light sources with the same camera white balance (most probable) or under the same light source with two different white balances. Either way it becomes impossible to tell which of these images portrays the correct color of the material. Most likely neither are exactly correct. Since how ivory patinas can sometimes be a clue as to the type of material used you can see how difficult that might be to determine accurately through photos and how easily colors can be manipulated.

28th November 2013, 06:41 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	AFAIK the inner core of sperm whale tooth (made from dentin) has a yellowish colour and shows concentric rings but of course this may vary from one specimen to another and depending on the age of the piece. The 2 attached Bugis hilts from Sulawesi are made from sperm whale ivory I think (other opinions are welcome) and they show a deep yellow patination. Regards PS: See the yellow core of the largest (broken) tooth shown by Ganja Iras Attached Images

1st December 2013, 01:59 PM	#6
Ganja Iras Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 57	ivory in ganesha style with gold This is my ganesha hilt ,made of ivory. Carved in lombok T.Q Ganja iras Attached Images

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28th November 2013, 03:17 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	By the pic the white hilt seems made by moose horn

28th November 2013, 08:23 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Jean, I have quite a few whale's tooth carvings, a couple are scrimshaws, the others are ornaments, and that is apart from hilts, I also have a number of whale's teeth. I've just gone and had a look at a few of these. I think it would be true to say that the core of the tooth patinates to a dark yellow, but in a freshly carved tooth without patination this is not the case. Close examination of a freshly carved tooth --- one that has been carved during , say, the last ten years --- does reveal a very, very slight tint of yellow, but not the deep yellow that can be seen in an old carving or an old tooth. You can see this quite clearly in the tips of the group of uncarved teeth above:- the tip, where the core shows through is a deep yellow, the outside of the tooth is whitish --- or as you say, the core of the broken large tooth. Many years ago I bought a lot of whales teeth that had been recovered from the sea bed in Western Australia. In the time when whaling was acknowledged as a legitimate activity, a whaling station in the area had dumped its rubbish into the sea at this spot. In the 1960's or 1970's, I forget which, divers recovered these teeth and at that time there were a lot of them for sale in Australia. I've been getting them carved and scrimshawed ever since. I also used a few for knife handles when I was involved in custom making.

29th November 2013, 08:39 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Alan and then the new Ganesha hilt from Ganja Iras could be made from a recently collected sperm whale tooth and will patinate with time. For our reference would you identify my 2 Buginese hilts (which are about 100 years old I think) as made from sperm whale tooth or not, or which other alternative? Regards

1st December 2013, 12:31 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Jean, I'm not as clever as a lot of people seem to be when it comes to identifying materials on the basis of a picture on my monitor. I need to have the item in my hand, and more often than not, a 3X loupe screwed into my eye. I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to have a punt of what your hilts may or may not be. Even with an item in my hand, on a couple of occasions I have very nearly purchase synthetic material as ivory, only my extreme caution and examination under magnification in good sunlight saved me. Name material from a screen pic? No thanks. Sorry.

1st December 2013, 04:17 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Ganja Iras' 3 images of his ganesha hilt point to one of the many problems involved with making identifications from photos on the internet. These are shot either under two different light sources with the same camera white balance (most probable) or under the same light source with two different white balances. Either way it becomes impossible to tell which of these images portrays the correct color of the material. Most likely neither are exactly correct. Since how ivory patinas can sometimes be a clue as to the type of material used you can see how difficult that might be to determine accurately through photos and how easily colors can be manipulated.