Great war sword mark for id

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi Zwielicht & Andreas
Thank you for your comment about the pommel marks.
So the last mark is this Arrow on the blade , It would be fantastic if someone could tell me more about the signification from this mark.
A last particularity from this sword is size with a blade about 1 meter ( 40 inches ) and hilt about 27 centimeters It could be the size for a two hands sword .
any comment on it would be welcome


Cerjak

The Shutzenbrudershaften were armed initially with bows and crossbows (like their Dutch equivalent the Shutterij, of Rembrandt’s the Night Watch fame) so that would account for the arrow on the blade. From the 17th century they were gradually replaced by mercenaries, and eventually evolved to the well known contemporary shooters guilds (shooting clubs) of German speaking countries.
They always had very strong ties with the church and provided guard during religious festivals and processions. That would explain the cross potent on the pommel. As for the sword itself, perhaps Oakeshott XIIa?
Best,
Andreas

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding information Andreas!!! and I have been able to add to my notes accordingly. Thank you so much.
Clearly an amazing example Jean Luc and thank you for sharing it here.

All best regards,
Jim

[Iain]

I'm going to have to be that horrible person who asks about the provenance attached to this sword.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Iain

I'm going to have to be that horrible person who asks about the provenance attached to this sword.

Meaning provenance=authencity ?

[Iain]

Originally Posted by fernando

Meaning provenance=authencity ?

It doesn't, but it can be part of it.

It's an interesting sword but unfortunately, when it comes to Medieval swords like this, I am a very cautious skeptic.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Iain

... when it comes to Medieval swords like this, I am a very cautious skeptic.

Such was the spirit of my 'subtle' approach in the last paragraph of my post # 6.
... If i saw this splendid example being offered out there, my first reaction would be sort of 'too good to be true' .

[Iain]

Originally Posted by fernando

Such was the spirit of my 'subtle' approach in the last paragraph of my post # 6.
... If i saw this splendid example being offered out there, my first reaction would be sort of 'too good to be true' .

I guess I hadn't had enough coffee to detect it at the time. I'm not the subtle type I guess!

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by Andreas

The Shutzenbrudershaften were armed initially with bows and crossbows (like their Dutch equivalent the Shutterij, of Rembrandt’s the Night Watch fame) so that would account for the arrow on the blade. From the 17th century they were gradually replaced by mercenaries, and eventually evolved to the well known contemporary shooters guilds (shooting clubs) of German speaking countries.
They always had very strong ties with the church and provided guard during religious festivals and processions. That would explain the cross potent on the pommel. As for the sword itself, perhaps Oakeshott XIIa?
Best,
Andreas

Dear Andreas

Many thanks for this precious information !

Jean-Luc

[Cerjak]

Dear Fernando & Lain

Last detail I've forgot to mention: the point of balance is 10 centimeters from the crossgard ,a good score for a medieval sword ..... together ,guard pommel blade marks patination are a coherent whole !I don’t understand the skeptical opinion about this sword. In which elements of this sword the doubt could be based ?

best

Jean-Luc

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Dear Fernando & Lain

Last detail I've forgot to mention: the point of balance is 10 centimeters from the crossgard ,a good score for a medieval sword ..... together ,guard pommel blade marks patination are a coherent whole !I don’t understand the skeptical opinion about this sword. In which elements of this sword the doubt could be based ?

best

Jean-Luc

Hi Jean-Luc, obviously since you have the sword in hand you are best placed to form an opinion on it. Unfortunately because of the large number of fakes on the market at the moment, both at auction and with private dealers, there are a lot of "too good to be true" swords out there as of course you know.

With your example the inlays are unusual. The condition of the inlay is also unusual for me, all of it appears to be intact. That's not impossible of course, but again, unusual. I could also say the slightly raised nature of the inlay is odd to me, but I am only used to handling swords with inlay with much less corrosion and losses to the blade material. So perhaps it is nothing and I am just ignorant.

It is of course not possible to determine authenticity just from photographs and I am certainly not an expert to do it in any case! But the points above really what made me think about this sword.

I hope of course it is entirely genuine, because it is really a very nice and unique example in that case.

All the best,
Iain

[fernando]

Salut Jean-luc,
My knowledge is infinitely less than enough to judge on the autheticity of your sword. My skepticism is only conversational, as based on the statistic evidence that only 'one in a thousand' of such rare swords is the real thing.
I see that you have some supporting background on the provenance of your example. Assuming that it is a genuine sword, with those three marks in such a pristine condition , i can only feel envious for not being myself the one to have the previlege to own it.
As a ransom of my previous impertinence, i will ask someone i know, who has a significant knowledge of these things, whether he has already had contact with this type of marks, to try und unveal the mistery still residing on them.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by fernando

Salut Jean-luc,
My knowledge is infinitely less than enough to judge on the autheticity of your sword. My skepticism is only conversational, as based on the statistic evidence that only 'one in a thousand' of such rare swords is the real thing.
I see that you have some supporting background on the provenance of your example. Assuming that it is a genuine sword, with those three marks in such a pristine condition , i can only feel envious for not being myself the one to have the previlege to own it.
As a ransom of my previous impertinence, i will ask someone i know, who has a significant knowledge of these things, whether he has already had contact with this type of marks, to try und unveal the mistery still residing on them.

Fernando

It will be great if you have the luck to ask to a friend of you his opinion about those marks ,I will send you high resolution pictures so it will be better for this study.

Jean-Luc

[sioume]

Salut Jean Luc

I am a french collectionneur ( medieval & Renaissance period) not used yet to this forum...!!
The only thing I can tell you Jean Luc is there are not serious expert in France.
Armouries collecting is not as developp as in german or english countries therefore the market is rather poor.
The only serious way could be to show your sword to Thomas Del Mar (Sotheby's) or contact a reputable expert or dealer ..
I do not know if I can named him on this forum so you can send me a private mail.
La vie est dure pour les collectionneurs français... Hard live for french collectionneurs..!
A bientôt
Alain