Sudan Mahdist daggers

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

As an aside for anyone interested in form and design on ethnographic items. Was doing some reading up on Native American material, and find that the "double C" or "reversed C" form employed on some Beja dagger hilts, is also to be found on American Indian objects, particularly Woodlands area.

Seems design forms often developed independently in different cultures...

Excellent observation Colin!! and one of the key elements in studying ethnographic arms. In many cases there are of course instances of independant evolution of forms, especially the simpler types, and this is something often faced in the study of the symbology often seen as well.

This of course often leads to many in degree, tenuous free associations which with further research may subsequently be plausibly supported or patently dismissed.

The American Indian culture is powerfully fascinating, and I always wish there was more activity here discussing thier weapons and culture. In many cases there is tempting evidence tying various arms to cultures of course such as in Asia and Mexico in 'pre-contact' context, the bow and arrow and the atlatl. Naturally stone tools and weapons seem to have similar development in broad scope over immense periods of time, as seen in the connections of Clovis culture prehistorically compared from New Mexico to European regions.
Thank you for noting my suggestion that the influence of other cultures, in my reference toward India, were quite plausible in many African arms. As we have also noted, it seems that is sometimes the case in degree with iconographic sources of Egyptian forms.

Returning to the discussion on these Sudanese daggers, as we have agreed, commemorative inscriptions were often placed or inscribed on arms provenanced to certain events or battles. I did not mean to imply in my earlier comments that these were spuriously fabricated, but that perhaps authentically provenanced blades may have been mounted with these hilts and notably inscribed.
Many captured blades are often found in hybrid context remounted, and inscribed with provenanencial notes in various instances.

The excellent images in post #18 are (on the left) Rudolph Slatin (author of 'Fire & Sword' 1896 as you noted) who was the Austrian soldier who was appointed Governor of Darfur by Gordon, captured and prisoner of the Mahdi's forces for 11 years. Also an excellent reference on this is "Prisoners of the Mahdi", by the late Byron Farwell, 1989.

P.S.
Always good to see Oliver, one of the pioneer weapons researchers around here!!