Two hands sword

carlos · 15th July 2013, 06:04 PM

This is my last adquisition, a beautiful and large sword, near 70 in. with a wavy blade with a lot of rust near the point.
Seems a like a sword used by lanskenet soldiers, what are your opinión? age?
thanks in advance

carlos

fernando · 16th July 2013, 01:52 PM

Very nice sword, Carlos but ... are you sure this is a fighting sword and nota cerimonial example ?

I assume i may be talking nonsense

carlos · 16th July 2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Very nice sword, Carlos but ... are you sure this is a fighting sword and nota cerimonial example ?

I assume i may be talking nonsense

Hello Fernando
No, I,m not sure, I don,t know nothing about sword, but I think is posible the sword was made to ceremonial purpose or decoration.
best regards

carlos

broadaxe · 16th July 2013, 06:48 PM

The best tale-tellers are the guard finials and pommel: 1. aside being nice to the eye, they simply will not stand the rigors of war and brake.
2. this pommel type is just wrong to that kind of sword.
There are some other variants to take in consideration but the photos are a little fuzzy - I'm talking about the grip, proportions, sub-guard.

carlos · 16th July 2013, 07:03 PM

Thanks for the information.
Do you think is a recent piece or maybe a victorian piece made for decoration ?
thanks again

carlos

carlos · 16th July 2013, 07:07 PM

I had seen one similar ...

Jim McDougall · 17th July 2013, 08:34 AM

I think Broadaxe has well placed observations on this 'two hander' which is indeed intended to represent swords of this type used in many cases by 'Landsknechts'. This appears to be either decorative or possibly even theatrical, as by the latter 19th c. and into 20th many such weapons were convincingly similar in appearance, though clearly not combat worthy.
In my opinion, the grip seems to be wood with studs,of course attractive but not correct, nor is the grip style.
The rust would occur even on the metal of these type swords with a reasonably antiquity in thier own right if that early, however I believe examples may have been made as decorators much more recently.

Whatever the case, it is a handsomely made example, even if not, in my opinion, an authentic period specimen of these sturdy fighting swords.

valkenburg · 18th July 2013, 05:14 PM

Check out this sword that was recently sold at auction:

http://www.lawrences.co.uk/Catalogue...3/lot0079.html

This sword is a little similar to yours and was made late 19th century (maybe early 20th century) and was most likely used only for decoration or processional use.

it sold for 870 pounds sterling.

carlos · 18th July 2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkenburg

Check out this sword that was recently sold at auction:

http://www.lawrences.co.uk/Catalogue...3/lot0079.html

This sword is a little similar to yours and was made late 19th century (maybe early 20th century) and was most likely used only for decoration or processional use.

it sold for 870 pounds sterling.

Thank you very much !
Yes, this example is very similar, Reading this I´m very happy,I paid 185 euros for the sword.
Thanks again

carlos

valkenburg · 18th July 2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos

Thank you very much !
Yes, this example is very similar, Reading this I´m very happy,I paid 185 euros for the sword.
Thanks again

carlos

Only 185 euro?? what a bargain! Lucky you. 870 was the hammer price, and then 23% + VAT was added as well (so in the end it was about 1100 euro). But I think your sword is more recent than this one.

laEspadaAncha · 20th July 2013, 11:31 PM

Hi Carlos,

Is the sword now in your possession? Can you post close-up photos of the (top of) the pommel? How is that highly-stylized pommel secured to the rest of the hilt?

Even if it a late Victorian wall hanger, somebody should still call the police, because if you only paid 185 euros, IMO you stole it.

Cheers,
Chris

fernando · 21st July 2013, 01:52 AM

Well, different perspectives;depending on whether or not you enjoy gathering wall hangers ... with all due respect

laEspadaAncha · 21st July 2013, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Well, different perspectives;depending on whether or not you enjoy gathering wall hangers ... with all due respect

I know...

What I would give to come across a period original in a local sale - the only one I've held in hand was a Victorian creation as well, and I gave it a happy albeit temporary home on my wall until it was traded for something more appealing. What's the old saying? "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with?"

Trust me though - the day the real deal walks into my shop, it's not walking out.

Jim McDougall · 21st July 2013, 03:49 AM

If its an early , i.e. Victorian or early 20th example used as noted in pageants, theatrical or otherwise, these are still worthy antiquities in thier own right. The Victorian penchant for reproduced classical arms and armour has placed many items as desirable collectibles, especially the Ernst Schmitt products from Munich, 19th c.
Many of these were displayed in the Higgins museum for many years along with authentic pieces.

fernando · 21st July 2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... these are still worthy antiquities in thier own right...

Yes, Jim !
An antiquity; nevertheless a copy ... of something in use three centuries before

.
I repeat, with the due respect for Carlos ... and also for genuine two handed swords (called montantes over here)

.

fernando · 21st July 2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

... What's the old saying? "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with?"

..

Same as: he who doesn't have a dog, hunts with a cat

I din't think i could ever afford to acquire the real thing ... when it appears ... so i pass

valkenburg · 21st July 2013, 08:36 PM

Does any of you know how these Victorian copies were made? were the hand forged like they did in the 16th century? or were they made out sheet metal with machinery? they already had some pretty sophisticated metal-work machines in the Victorian era.

laEspadaAncha · 21st July 2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkenburg

Does any of you know how these Victorian copies were made? were the hand forged like they did in the 16th century? or were they made out sheet metal with machinery? they already had some pretty sophisticated metal-work machines in the Victorian era.

My only experience was with a blade that was hand forged (and the waves were forged in the blade), at it had a rectangular (full length) to rat tail (last 1 1/2-2 inches) tang, onto which the pilow pommel screwed (though receessed or sleeved I cannot recall), securing the one-piece hardwood grip and the crossguard, both which had to be fitted correctly (i.e., the grip would only seat into the guard correctly one way). Each of the four parts were individually numbered with a matching, two-strike, two digit stamp in a serif font.

I tried to find some pics, but this was years ago...

If I happen across them on a archived drive, I'll post them.

Cheers,
Chris

15th July 2013, 06:04 PM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Two hands sword This is my last adquisition, a beautiful and large sword, near 70 in. with a wavy blade with a lot of rust near the point. Seems a like a sword used by lanskenet soldiers, what are your opinión? age? thanks in advance carlos Attached Images

16th July 2013, 07:07 PM	#6
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	I had seen one similar ... Attached Images

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16th July 2013, 01:52 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice sword, Carlos but ... are you sure this is a fighting sword and nota cerimonial example ? I assume i may be talking nonsense

16th July 2013, 06:48 PM	#4
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	The best tale-tellers are the guard finials and pommel: 1. aside being nice to the eye, they simply will not stand the rigors of war and brake. 2. this pommel type is just wrong to that kind of sword. There are some other variants to take in consideration but the photos are a little fuzzy - I'm talking about the grip, proportions, sub-guard.

16th July 2013, 07:03 PM	#5
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Thanks for the information. Do you think is a recent piece or maybe a victorian piece made for decoration ? thanks again carlos

17th July 2013, 08:34 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	I think Broadaxe has well placed observations on this 'two hander' which is indeed intended to represent swords of this type used in many cases by 'Landsknechts'. This appears to be either decorative or possibly even theatrical, as by the latter 19th c. and into 20th many such weapons were convincingly similar in appearance, though clearly not combat worthy. In my opinion, the grip seems to be wood with studs,of course attractive but not correct, nor is the grip style. The rust would occur even on the metal of these type swords with a reasonably antiquity in thier own right if that early, however I believe examples may have been made as decorators much more recently. Whatever the case, it is a handsomely made example, even if not, in my opinion, an authentic period specimen of these sturdy fighting swords.

18th July 2013, 05:14 PM	#8
valkenburg Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 16	Check out this sword that was recently sold at auction: http://www.lawrences.co.uk/Catalogue...3/lot0079.html This sword is a little similar to yours and was made late 19th century (maybe early 20th century) and was most likely used only for decoration or processional use. it sold for 870 pounds sterling.

20th July 2013, 11:31 PM	#11
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Carlos, Is the sword now in your possession? Can you post close-up photos of the (top of) the pommel? How is that highly-stylized pommel secured to the rest of the hilt? Even if it a late Victorian wall hanger, somebody should still call the police, because if you only paid 185 euros, IMO you stole it. Cheers, Chris

21st July 2013, 01:52 AM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well, different perspectives;depending on whether or not you enjoy gathering wall hangers ... with all due respect

21st July 2013, 03:49 AM	#14
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	If its an early , i.e. Victorian or early 20th example used as noted in pageants, theatrical or otherwise, these are still worthy antiquities in thier own right. The Victorian penchant for reproduced classical arms and armour has placed many items as desirable collectibles, especially the Ernst Schmitt products from Munich, 19th c. Many of these were displayed in the Higgins museum for many years along with authentic pieces.

21st July 2013, 08:36 PM	#17
valkenburg Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 16	Does any of you know how these Victorian copies were made? were the hand forged like they did in the 16th century? or were they made out sheet metal with machinery? they already had some pretty sophisticated metal-work machines in the Victorian era.