Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th July 2013, 10:48 PM   #1
manteris1
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Default

very nice..........................jimmy
manteris1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2013, 07:14 AM   #2
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
Default

Ibrahiim, very astute comparison!!! which definitely led to African potential for this, and certainly Portuguese firearms were well known on Africas West Coast.
I think Colin hit it spot on, and well supported. The stance and character of that rider and the sword held seems quite comparable to Ethiopian iconography. The winged 'cherub' type figures were quite popular in 18th century Europe, and somewhat earlier in many cases, particularly in England. Also note the 'man in the moon' figure, often seen of course on sword blades from Solingen, well known in African regions in the trade commodities from the Red Sea routes.
It would not seem unlikely for an item like this to be fashioned in a diplomatic 'gift' or trade sense.

As far as provenance, it seems of course likely that these kinds of items could find thier way to many countries given those sort of circumstances. As for the demeanor of the horn, it seems compellingly African with European features and most like Ethiopian styling in those, as suggested by Colin.

The Italian suggestion may of course play in with Italy's colonial presence in then Abyssinia, so certainly plausible.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2013, 09:44 AM   #3
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,843
Default

This could be European "folk art". I agree there is much to suggest an African origin. However I am very unsure that this has been carved in Africa. I do not see West African interpretations of European dress and facial features. As for Ethiopia, yes painted Icons often portray pale skin and some European like faces. Again I find the central figure, side of the face to the viewer, very unusual for Ethiopian work plus the very European face and clothes. The central figures clothes suggest European peasant costume to me. I can find examples of peasant "folk art" depictions of figures with weapons, hunting and military. The martial figures are clearly in uniform. The fact that the figure on the horn appears in peasant costume would suggest a folk hero story of some kind to me?
The figure is very easily recognised as a handsome young man dashing off with his sword to do battle. The scene does not have any overtly deep religious theme except perhaps the young man is to take battle to the forces of evil in general. I think it odd that is it were the depiction of a European warrior in Africa, the figure is not in uniform? I think a wider search is needed.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2013, 09:21 PM   #4
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,843
Default

I am intrigued by the central figure and his features. The costume is interesting not African. I like this comparison, John 2 duke of Burgundy 14th century. I really cannot see any African work on this hunting powder horn.
Attached Images
 
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2013, 01:50 PM   #5
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

I agree with Tim in that this would not be an African work, but perhaps on a different basis. I don't reject te idea that Africans depict European figures in their works, namely when they work on a commission basis or in production of articles to be sold in the local market to returning Europeans. The Benin ivory works here recalled by Ibrahiim, brought back by soldiers to wealthy patrons or the religious artifacts i brought from Mozambique for my mother, made by Macondes on black wood, are a self speaking evidence.
Bit in both cases they were using their own local valuable raw materials; the carving work was the fusion. I don't see an European guy commissioning a carving work depicting his nationals on a cow powder horn.
On the other hand, if i were an expert on these thinks, i would explore the the interpretation of the figures composition, as a whole. The rider, the bird, the face in the half moon and the two angels with a different representation.
How would you ghuys see that as an approach ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 12:55 PM   #6
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Together with its home mates ... after a wash and a microcrystalline waxing.
I wouldn't know the apparently atypical hanging system the author realized for the neck end; just had to do something out of my humble ability.

.
Attached Images
  
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 05:35 PM   #7
Norman McCormick
Member
 
Norman McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,613
Default

Hi Fernando,
Found this, similar...ish, only info was 19thC and European.
My Regards,
Norman.
Attached Images
 
Norman McCormick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.