Kerises: Bali vs. Jawa etc

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2013, 08:10 PM

Ariel, universal market rules only apply to the universe in which any particular market is situated.

The bulk of the Balinese peaople are not situated in that universe.

Your comments desrve a considered response and as soon as I have time I will do my best to provide one.

A. G. Maisey · 14th March 2013, 04:32 AM

Ariel, I promised you that I would try to justify my opinion that Balinese blade makers who are members of the pande clan would be unlikely to attempt to satisfy a market demand outside of Bali for Balinese keris.

I'm currently in Solo, but before I left for here I did try to write an explanation of my opinion for you. I decided not to post it because it was far too long, far too complex and it still did not get anywhere near an adequate explanation.

A few days ago I was Bali.Last Saturday was the day for the Melis ceremony that precedes the Hari Nyepi celebrations. I attended the Melis ceremony that was held on Kuta beach. I estimate that around 70,000 to 100,000 people attended. It was quiet, orderly gathering, it lasted most of the day, people wandered in and out of it, there was no disruption, no unseemly conduct. It was a near to perfect example of the way in which Balinese traditional society functions:- a vast number of people moving as one and in harmony.To move outside this societal matrix essentially divorces a Balinese person from his culture, religion and life purpose.

To justify my opinion given in a previous p[ost, and to make it as short and simple as possible I will offer only this:-

the Balinese are different; pursuit of worldly matters must not interfere with the daily obligations of society and religion.

I suppose that at some time in the distant future Balinese attitudes may change, but as long Balinese society stays more or less as it now is I do not expect to see majority of Balinese members of the Pande Clan behaving in a similar manner to the rest of the world.

An immediate contradiction to what I have just said can be identified:- the owner of the Neka Musuim in Ubud is a member of the Pande Clan, and also an extremely wealthy man who has devoted his considerable intelligence to the accumulation of wealth. However, he seems to have been able to achieve this without interfering with his societal obligations. Most of us do not have a similar capacity. Pak Neka is an exception.

ariel · 15th March 2013, 12:45 AM

Fascinating.... Sounds like the mythical Bali Hai.
What do you attribute it to? Religion? Closeness of the island habitat? Level of westernization/industrialization?

David · 16th March 2013, 12:51 AM

Interesting enough the "mythical" Bali Ha'i is based upon the real island of Ambae (formerly Aoba Island and also known as Leper's Island) located in the Pacific nation of Vanuatu. Michener never actually stepped foot on it, developing it's mythology from afar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Ha'i

A. G. Maisey · 16th March 2013, 07:21 AM

I don't think I can give a short explanation of my opinions on the way in which Balinese society functions. Quite frankly I know a great deal less about Balinese society than I do about Javanese society. Quite a bit has been written on the society in general and on specific aspects of the society. Anybody who is trying to get a slightly better understanding of how the society functions should probably start with Covourrubias and then go to Eisemann (ptobably haven't spelled either of these names correctly but I guess google will sort the spelling for you). The underlying force is religion, but for the traditional Balinese, religion cannot be separated from daily life:- its not something you do to satisfy a requirement, it is how you live your life on a day to day basis. Society, religion, tradition all are woven together in a mesh that incoporates the individual into the weave.

As I said:- they're different.

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3rd March 2013, 08:10 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Ariel, universal market rules only apply to the universe in which any particular market is situated. The bulk of the Balinese peaople are not situated in that universe. Your comments desrve a considered response and as soon as I have time I will do my best to provide one.

14th March 2013, 04:32 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Ariel, I promised you that I would try to justify my opinion that Balinese blade makers who are members of the pande clan would be unlikely to attempt to satisfy a market demand outside of Bali for Balinese keris. I'm currently in Solo, but before I left for here I did try to write an explanation of my opinion for you. I decided not to post it because it was far too long, far too complex and it still did not get anywhere near an adequate explanation. A few days ago I was Bali.Last Saturday was the day for the Melis ceremony that precedes the Hari Nyepi celebrations. I attended the Melis ceremony that was held on Kuta beach. I estimate that around 70,000 to 100,000 people attended. It was quiet, orderly gathering, it lasted most of the day, people wandered in and out of it, there was no disruption, no unseemly conduct. It was a near to perfect example of the way in which Balinese traditional society functions:- a vast number of people moving as one and in harmony.To move outside this societal matrix essentially divorces a Balinese person from his culture, religion and life purpose. To justify my opinion given in a previous p[ost, and to make it as short and simple as possible I will offer only this:- the Balinese are different; pursuit of worldly matters must not interfere with the daily obligations of society and religion. I suppose that at some time in the distant future Balinese attitudes may change, but as long Balinese society stays more or less as it now is I do not expect to see majority of Balinese members of the Pande Clan behaving in a similar manner to the rest of the world. An immediate contradiction to what I have just said can be identified:- the owner of the Neka Musuim in Ubud is a member of the Pande Clan, and also an extremely wealthy man who has devoted his considerable intelligence to the accumulation of wealth. However, he seems to have been able to achieve this without interfering with his societal obligations. Most of us do not have a similar capacity. Pak Neka is an exception.

15th March 2013, 12:45 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Fascinating.... Sounds like the mythical Bali Hai. What do you attribute it to? Religion? Closeness of the island habitat? Level of westernization/industrialization?

16th March 2013, 12:51 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Interesting enough the "mythical" Bali Ha'i is based upon the real island of Ambae (formerly Aoba Island and also known as Leper's Island) located in the Pacific nation of Vanuatu. Michener never actually stepped foot on it, developing it's mythology from afar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Ha'i

16th March 2013, 07:21 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I don't think I can give a short explanation of my opinions on the way in which Balinese society functions. Quite frankly I know a great deal less about Balinese society than I do about Javanese society. Quite a bit has been written on the society in general and on specific aspects of the society. Anybody who is trying to get a slightly better understanding of how the society functions should probably start with Covourrubias and then go to Eisemann (ptobably haven't spelled either of these names correctly but I guess google will sort the spelling for you). The underlying force is religion, but for the traditional Balinese, religion cannot be separated from daily life:- its not something you do to satisfy a requirement, it is how you live your life on a day to day basis. Society, religion, tradition all are woven together in a mesh that incoporates the individual into the weave. As I said:- they're different.