Photo Request - Burmese Gen. Maha Bandula's surrendered Armour @ the Tower of London

Nathaniel · 13th January 2013, 09:08 PM

Okay, I will test my luck here too....I had been told before that at one time at least the famous Burmese General Mana Bandula's surrendered armour was on display at the Tower of London. I do not know if they allow photos taken in the Tower of London...and don't want anyone getting locked up there for the sake of the forum but it would be most interesting to see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maha_Bandula

I believe his armour was surrendered at the Treaty of Yandabo during the first Anglo Burman war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Yandabo

I have seen an old photo of his armour and you can see the strong Indian influence. And also there is depictions of him in Burmese style military dress.

aiontay · 13th January 2013, 11:30 PM

I won't vouch for the accuracy of this, but the Kachins claim he was a Kachin. They point out that his name isn't Burmese and that Ban Du La (Maha was a title) sounds Kachin. Of course, that has nothing to do with his armor.

David R · 20th January 2013, 12:08 AM

This looks very like a couple of the armours in the Royal Armouries Leeds. Give them a call or an email, they are very friendly and cooperative and will have photo's on file, they don't charge a lot either in my experience. You will also get a better picture, without distortion from the glass of the case.

Nathaniel · 30th January 2013, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

This looks very like a couple of the armours in the Royal Armouries Leeds. Give them a call or an email, they are very friendly and cooperative and will have photo's on file, they don't charge a lot either in my experience. You will also get a better picture, without distortion from the glass of the case.

Great idea David R

I will give it a shot and see what happens and report back!

estcrh · 4th February 2013, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

I have seen an old photo of his armour and you can see the strong Indian influence.

Nathaniel, I actually think that is an Indian armor, a chilta hazar masha or coat of a thousand nails. Here is a comparison image with one from the Wallace Collection, London England.

Nathaniel · 5th February 2013, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Nathaniel, I actually think that is an Indian armor, a chilta hazar masha or coat of a thousand nails. Here is a comparison image with one from the Wallace Collection, London England.

Thanks Estcrh for the id & picture. That is the curious thing for sure about this label as the Burmese generals armour...it is clearly Indian, that I have known...that is part of why I'm curious to see if the suit of armour I was told that is in the Tower of London is the same. India was obviously a neighbor and there was allot of informational exchange between the region so it's quite possible that the general could have had an Indian suit of armour...but it does seem a bit odd a the same time...most other Burmese images (statues, paintings) of course have him in the more familiar Burmese military official attire...

Also @ Aiontay, you are the 2nd person who has mentioned to me about the Kachin claim to the ethnic roots of Maha Bandula. Thank you for posting...very interesting.

aiontay · 6th February 2013, 01:49 PM

During the early 19th century the Kachins were already established in Assam (the Singhpo) and were also raiding Manipur, so maybe that is how he got his Indian armor. I'm joking, but there was plenty of contact with India, as you note. Remember how the First Burmese War got started after all.

Gavin Nugent · 6th February 2013, 02:43 PM

Although after Mana Bandula's death, Scott writes in the mid 1880s about Mandalay.
He states that the outer suburbs housed over 100,000 people, being the traders and general population and that the wealth was in the hands of the Chinese and Moguls with whom the king was afraid to meddle.
He goes on to say, quote, "the grim-visaged Mogul, who could buy up half the town".
This is likely the case in other regions of Burma in earlier times too.

If this Mogul weath and trade centre existed as strongly back then through exporting vast amounts of products back to India, this could well have influneced and provided such a type of armour to Mana Bandula's court.

Just a little more food for thought :-)

Gav

Nathaniel · 17th February 2013, 05:09 AM

Thanks Gavin citing the informative historical account...I think it is definitely plausible that the wealthy would have the money to incorporate foreign armour dress just like they would use foreign weapons.

I ran into a separate reference to Maha Bandula's armour in UK

"The armour of Maha Bandular once was displayed at British museum. The style of it is very similar to Rajput brigandine armour called Chihal'Ta Hazar Masha (Coat of the thousand nails)"

Nathaniel · 17th February 2013, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Nathaniel, I actually think that is an Indian armor, a chilta hazar masha or coat of a thousand nails. Here is a comparison image with one from the Wallace Collection, London England.

Estcrh, I was looking again at the example of a Chilta Hazar Masha you provided from the Wallance Collection compared to the black and white photo labeled as General Maha Bandula's armour and wow! it looks like it is almost an exact match...I'm not saying this particular one is Maha Bandula's, but at least they are very similar.

Nathaniel · 20th February 2013, 06:07 AM

Okay, found the cite ... Tower Armouries. Thanks to Google Books: Oriental Armour by H. Russell Robinson.

Page 103: "In the Tower Armouries there is an armour of the type just described which has become associated with the Burmese general Maha Bandula, who died at the Battle of Donabyu in 1825 - an unlikely story, for which there is no supporting evidence. Another variant of this studded armour is a short- skirted coat, opening in the front, with a series of rectangular plats attached vertically to the upper par - one on each breast, one under each arm and two at the back. An example in the Tower Armouries has applied gilt borders to the plates instead of gold damascene (Pl. XIV, C) The Rajputs called these armours chibal'ta bazar masha ('coat of a thousand nails')."

13th January 2013, 09:08 PM	#1
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Photo Request - Burmese Gen. Maha Bandula's surrendered Armour @ the Tower of London Okay, I will test my luck here too....I had been told before that at one time at least the famous Burmese General Mana Bandula's surrendered armour was on display at the Tower of London. I do not know if they allow photos taken in the Tower of London...and don't want anyone getting locked up there for the sake of the forum but it would be most interesting to see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maha_Bandula I believe his armour was surrendered at the Treaty of Yandabo during the first Anglo Burman war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Yandabo I have seen an old photo of his armour and you can see the strong Indian influence. And also there is depictions of him in Burmese style military dress. Attached Images

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13th January 2013, 11:30 PM	#2
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	I won't vouch for the accuracy of this, but the Kachins claim he was a Kachin. They point out that his name isn't Burmese and that Ban Du La (Maha was a title) sounds Kachin. Of course, that has nothing to do with his armor.

20th January 2013, 12:08 AM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	This looks very like a couple of the armours in the Royal Armouries Leeds. Give them a call or an email, they are very friendly and cooperative and will have photo's on file, they don't charge a lot either in my experience. You will also get a better picture, without distortion from the glass of the case.

6th February 2013, 01:49 PM	#7
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	During the early 19th century the Kachins were already established in Assam (the Singhpo) and were also raiding Manipur, so maybe that is how he got his Indian armor. I'm joking, but there was plenty of contact with India, as you note. Remember how the First Burmese War got started after all.

6th February 2013, 02:43 PM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Although after Mana Bandula's death, Scott writes in the mid 1880s about Mandalay. He states that the outer suburbs housed over 100,000 people, being the traders and general population and that the wealth was in the hands of the Chinese and Moguls with whom the king was afraid to meddle. He goes on to say, quote, "the grim-visaged Mogul, who could buy up half the town". This is likely the case in other regions of Burma in earlier times too. If this Mogul weath and trade centre existed as strongly back then through exporting vast amounts of products back to India, this could well have influneced and provided such a type of armour to Mana Bandula's court. Just a little more food for thought :-) Gav

17th February 2013, 05:09 AM	#9
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Thanks Gavin citing the informative historical account...I think it is definitely plausible that the wealthy would have the money to incorporate foreign armour dress just like they would use foreign weapons. I ran into a separate reference to Maha Bandula's armour in UK "The armour of Maha Bandular once was displayed at British museum. The style of it is very similar to Rajput brigandine armour called Chihal'Ta Hazar Masha (Coat of the thousand nails)"

20th February 2013, 06:07 AM	#11
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Okay, found the cite ... Tower Armouries. Thanks to Google Books: Oriental Armour by H. Russell Robinson. Page 103: "In the Tower Armouries there is an armour of the type just described which has become associated with the Burmese general Maha Bandula, who died at the Battle of Donabyu in 1825 - an unlikely story, for which there is no supporting evidence. Another variant of this studded armour is a short- skirted coat, opening in the front, with a series of rectangular plats attached vertically to the upper par - one on each breast, one under each arm and two at the back. An example in the Tower Armouries has applied gilt borders to the plates instead of gold damascene (Pl. XIV, C) The Rajputs called these armours chibal'ta bazar masha ('coat of a thousand nails')."