Rapier or smallsword PIERCED blade for comment

Valjhun · 4th February 2013, 11:45 PM

Thank you Gene. The blade is 59,5 cm long. Tomorrow I will dissasemble it and see what is under that silly hilt.

Atlantia · 5th February 2013, 10:03 AM

Before you disassemble it, can we see the whole thing?
Oh, and I sent you a PM that might be of help to your research.

fernando · 5th February 2013, 01:10 PM

This one figures in page 28 of R.D.C. Evans work "THE PLUG BAYONET".
Mounted in a hilt with a cross guard with 'Helmet-Head' finials (a XVII century fashion) we can see a perforated blade measuring 356 m/m, (quote Evans) possibly a re-used section of a rapier blade.
Pity he doesn't attribute a date to the blade ... for the sake of this discussion, i mean

.

M ELEY · 6th February 2013, 01:26 AM

Yes, please show the hilt! It seems that a lit of these rapier/smallsword blades were re-used to make daggers, naval dirks, etc. Not trying to jump the gun until I see the hilt, but the simple cross-bar might indicate a naval piece refitted for battle. I have a stiletto bladed dirk with a 16" blade. Just food for thought before you dis-assemble it.

M ELEY · 6th February 2013, 01:28 AM

Oops, I see now where you listed the length of approx 23". Perhaps too long for a dirk, but would still like to see the hilt.

Valjhun · 6th February 2013, 11:10 AM

OK, here is it. Just a piece of wood rivetted. Awkward and modern.

Too short for a sword too long for a dagger.

Thank you for your replies. Fernando wonderfull, I never saw a plug bayonet with such a blade wich is very similar to mine.

Valjhun · 6th February 2013, 11:48 AM

Without the wooden hilt.

Well, I hoped that the blade contiued into the hilt... obviously not.. is that an original tang or just a soldered piece? I would vote for the second option, I'm not sure thou.

fernando · 6th February 2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

... too long for a dagger...

Not necessarily ... i mean, there were hunting (plug) bayonets with blades reaching the length of your example and even more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

is that an original tang or just a soldered piece? I would vote for the second option, I'm not sure thou....

Most certainly the second option; blades usually brake by their body but probably this one broke by the tang. Then the (new) owner shortened its point and welded such bizarre tang, transforming it into what it is now, whatever its use... even a defence side arm. This would also give logic to a weapon with such blade length.
The cross is apparently from the period, added to the blade for its new pourpose.
Pardon me if i am talking nonsense

.

5th February 2013, 01:10 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Not dated but ... This one figures in page 28 of R.D.C. Evans work "THE PLUG BAYONET". Mounted in a hilt with a cross guard with 'Helmet-Head' finials (a XVII century fashion) we can see a perforated blade measuring 356 m/m, (quote Evans) possibly a re-used section of a rapier blade. Pity he doesn't attribute a date to the blade ... for the sake of this discussion, i mean . Attached Images

6th February 2013, 11:10 AM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	OK, here is it. Just a piece of wood rivetted. Awkward and modern. Too short for a sword too long for a dagger. Thank you for your replies. Fernando wonderfull, I never saw a plug bayonet with such a blade wich is very similar to mine. Attached Images

6th February 2013, 11:48 AM	#7
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Without the wooden hilt. Well, I hoped that the blade contiued into the hilt... obviously not.. is that an original tang or just a soldered piece? I would vote for the second option, I'm not sure thou. Attached Images

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4th February 2013, 11:45 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thank you Gene. The blade is 59,5 cm long. Tomorrow I will dissasemble it and see what is under that silly hilt.

5th February 2013, 10:03 AM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Before you disassemble it, can we see the whole thing? Oh, and I sent you a PM that might be of help to your research.

6th February 2013, 01:26 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Yes, please show the hilt! It seems that a lit of these rapier/smallsword blades were re-used to make daggers, naval dirks, etc. Not trying to jump the gun until I see the hilt, but the simple cross-bar might indicate a naval piece refitted for battle. I have a stiletto bladed dirk with a 16" blade. Just food for thought before you dis-assemble it.

6th February 2013, 01:28 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Oops, I see now where you listed the length of approx 23". Perhaps too long for a dirk, but would still like to see the hilt.