A fine moroccan Musket for ID

[Cerjak]

Hi eveybody

Here a fine Moroccan Musket for ID.
Also I need help for translate one Arabic inscription.
Any comments are welcome.
Cerjak

[Cerjak]

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[Cerjak]

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[Cerjak]

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[Cerjak]

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[Cerjak]

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[Cerjak]

one more

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hi Cerjak,
I would say - very nice Tuareg musket with snaphance lock

[Dom]

Hi Cerjak
hard luck ... we don't win at each shoot

anyway, the transcription (not the translation) give
might be what could be a name, without guarantee
KAWASH (?) ... no more

otherwise, very nice gun, with a fantastic "platine à chenapan"
but I didn't think, that should be Tuareg

à +

Dom

[Multumesc]

Very beautiful musket! Is great!!!

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Cerjak
hard luck ... we don't win at each shoot

anyway, the transcription (not the translation) give
might be what could be a name, without guarantee
KAWASH (?) ... no more

otherwise, very nice gun, with a fantastic "platine à chenapan"
but I didn't think, that should be Tuareg

à +

Dom

Hi Dom

Again many thanks for your help ,I don't think too that it could be Tuareg But I have seen in a book a similar example said to be from algeria but I have some doubts because I have many Algerian muskets and their lock are different
May be a menber know more about his origin

Regards

Cerjak

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hi Cerjak and Dom,
I will try to resist a little to make the discussion more funny. This style of the gunstock including the shaping for finger was common in Sahara a and till now I was of the opinion it was used generally there, but also mainly preferred by Tuaregs (see other types of north African gunstocks used parallelly). On the other side - the true is the Tuaregs used another adornment, mostly made of camel bones and studs.
I think this kind of lock was used in north Africa from and including Tripolitania to the west, and also parallelly with other types. But let the experts for musket join this thread

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi Dom

Again many thanks for your help ,I don't think too that it could be Tuareg But I have seen in a book a similar example said to be from algeria but I have some doubts because I have many Algerian muskets and their lock are different
May be a menber know more about his origin

Hi Cerjak
yes your doubts are justified, myself I checked my books,
here what I deduced ;
- In Morocco, they prefer the "platine Chenapan"
- In Ageria they prefer, the "platine Miquelet"
this deduction (general view) is based on the examination of muskets known for each country,
the differences must be consecutive to supply sources

the heel of your rifle, is very similar to those of Morocco
more precisely, from "Tetuna" (North Coast)

back to Martin's suggestion ...
Tuareg's long gun ... why not, as per an exception, to confirm that
in general, the Tuareg weapons were not guns or pistols,
but essentially ;
- takouba
- ceremonial sword
- spears and javelins
- arm dagger (Telek)
- belt dagger
- shield
- and even, "offensive wristlets"

Tuareg's raids were operated in an eastern direction (Sudan)
or South to the African territories (actualy; Niger, Mali, etc.), this in order to give them the slaves they needed,
but no (or very few) firearms, in this times in these regions, also the Tuaregs began to possess fire arms, circa 1898
but it wasn't anymore traditional weapons, but European weapons, in the context of smuggling of gold, ivory, in direction of North

if this is not the "truth" at least it should not be far
references issued from, French book
- Histoire Générale de l'Afrique
"l'Afrique au XIXè siècle jusque vers les années 1880"
par Jacob Festus Ade Ajayi

all the best, Cerjak and Martin

à +

Dom

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hi Dom and Cerjak,
OK - I strike sail, guns are not my field.
But where are those old times of takoubas and teleks.....- Enclosed plese find "Tuaregs through the eye of time".
And also - where are other forumites (I mean experts for long guns) ?
Regards,
Martin

[TVV]

The only reference I have on these is Elgoods "Firearms of the Islamic World". There he describes this type as Afedali and places its origin in the Sous valley in Morocco. It would not be surprising if these were used within a much wider area though.

I am not sure of a good reference on firearms used by the Tuareg, but it seems like they had no cultural reluctance to guns and acquired them at any given opportunity. Per Smaldone, the Tuareg controlled the Northern (or Trans-Saharan) route of firearms into Hausaland, and it would seem likely that many of the guns they obtained must have been of Moroccan manufacture, as these were probably the only ones available for the most part. The French and the other colonial powers in the region did everything they could to prevent a supply of modern firearms to the Tuareg and the Sudanic empires, for obvious reasons.

Smaldone also raises a very good point: the lack of a reliable supply of cartridges for breechloaders made muzzleloaders popular in the Sahel (and likely Sahara as well), since the ammunition for them could be locally produced.

Based on the above it seems pretty safe to conclude that muskets such as the very nice subject of this thread, must have been used among the Tuareg, at least for as long as they could not obtain anything better.

[Cerjak]

Hi dom ,Martin&TVV
The problem is that except Elgoods "Firearms of the Islamic World" there is no more book I know relating Guns From Morocco ,Algeria & Maghreb.It seems that from BALKAN there it’s more documentations available and I can't understand that with the good and old relationship we had in France with those countries that I have never find a French book specialized in the study from those guns.
Not logical !

Regards
Cerjak

[Martin Lubojacky]

There are also articles about North African long guns, including nice photos, in "Islamic Weapons from Maghrib to Moghul" by Anthony C. Tirri.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

There are also articles about North African long guns, including nice photos, in "Islamic Weapons from Maghrib to Moghul" by Anthony C. Tirri.

Hi Martin
you tricked me very well you have in your library a very good reference book
where I listed pictures for;

- 20 long guns for Morocco
- 04 pistols for Morocco

- 14 long guns for Algeria
- 03 pistols for Algeria
- 08 long guns for Kabylia

- 02 long guns for Tunisia

none at all, for "Tuareg",

and you say that the Tuareg had firearms (19th century)
as per exception, "yes", but not on regular basis, as I mentioned it

thank you to have making me do research to support my argumentation
it is good to reopen the books from time to time, to refresh the memory

all the best

à +

Dom

[Martin Lubojacky]

Hi Dom,
As I wrote already I stroke sail .....so I do not understand.
Of course before I made reference for Tirri´s book I went through it. But If you are going to be precise, there is one for Tuareg (of the type presented here) . And I believe you for hundred % - Tuaregs did not use guns in 19 century, they started in 20 century .
(But desperately really - I fully understand gun is not their original weapon. And BTW - Years ago I visited 6 times Ghadames and two times Ghat, which were considered to be part Azjer Tuaregs territories before, and I saw some old photos in a small private museum in Ghadames - maybe armed accompanions of caravan...)
best
Martin