Is this an "old man's hobby"?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by spiral

Great stuff Jim but the fear is that in the west not many young men take up collecting this sort of stuff knowadays... Not like when when we were young men , then many boys/men were interested in guns & swords.

Spiral

Quite true Jonathan, at least in the public relations end of things. It seems that the political correctness syndrome has swept so many museums and people believe that shielding the public from these 'deadly things' will prevent violence. Actually here in the U.S. the interest in weapons does remain quite prevalent, but with the unbelievable expense of authentic antiques and fakes running rampant, it seems reproductions are more the mainstay.
It is true however that in my huge family with kids, legions of nieces and nephews, and my grandkids, none consider my fascination with historic weapons as anything but weird. There was a ray of light though with one of my nephews who my brother informed me was intrigued by knives. He is quite young, but I gave him an old theatrical knights sword, which will be kept for him but it will be his, his eyes lit up as he saw his fascination with tales of knights and medieval times became real.

I saw exactly what I felt when I would hold a patinated, worn and often broken old sword which I had researched and found key regimental marks linking it distinctly to historical events I had long studied. Here was a piece of that history which had been there in 'real time'! These arms are the very sentinels of history, and long to tell us thier stories, if we will only take the time to seek the questions and answers.

That is why I have studied this obsessively most of my life, and my goal has always been to remind not just collectors, but the public at large, that these arms were far more than simple deadly 'tools' but the very iconic fiber of entire cultures, groups, tribes, Faiths, and patriots.

I know most of us well understand this, and thankfully here we strive to research these arms, discover and preserve thier history, well deserved in being held with that of the people who used them.

All the best,
Jim

[Shimmerxxx]

Interesting thread, I have wondered this myself when attending arms fairs.

I'm 39 and have had an interest in weaponry for the last 20 years or so. I know a few others of my age who have an interest, but none who are collectors.

Given the prices often involved in collecting I have thought that to be a determining factor in the ages of collectors. I have an average salary job but no kids or pets and don't go on expensive holidays and I can only afford the occasional piece here and there, and then those will be towards the bottom of the market. This is due to the cost of living, having a mortgage etc sapping all my earning before I can spend them on lovely shiny pointy things.

I'm also fortunate that my fiancée shares my interest in arms and armour, albeit not quite to the same level as me. If I had more outgoings and a missus less interested in my hobby I would imagine that I wouldn't be much of a collector myself. As it is, most of the time I have to make do with collecting photographs of weapons and books on the subject rather than the real thing.

Perhaps somewhat erroneously, I have assumed that the reason that the majority of collectors are older are that generation has paid off their mortgages and doesn't have any dependants, possibly retired, and therefore has more time and money to lavish on their interests.

It could just be that the older generation has more of a an general interest in history than the younger generation. This certainly seems to be true of my colleagues at work, it's difficult to find someone of my years or younger to have a decent conversation with!

[archer]

Well in a few months It'll be 74. Older but certainly no wiser. Love finding out about various weapons. You guys. have all helped with My quest.

Regards, Steve

[kahnjar1]

Pleased to see the thread is "back on track".
I think that Shimmerxxx's post hits the nail on the head. Over the years the price of antique weapons has increased hugely, cost of living has gone up, and the economic situation worldwide has steadily got worse. All this has a bearing on what we collect and what we can AFFORD to collect.Certainly a partner/wife who also takes an interest, is a huge help to the man who collects.
DON'T FORGET THAT WE ALSO HAVE LADY MEMBERS HERE.
I suspect that age may not be as easily published , but time the Lady has been collecting would be of interest.
Regards Stu

Originally Posted by Shimmerxxx

Interesting thread, I have wondered this myself when attending arms fairs.

I'm 39 and have had an interest in weaponry for the last 20 years or so. I know a few others of my age who have an interest, but none who are collectors.

Given the prices often involved in collecting I have thought that to be a determining factor in the ages of collectors. I have an average salary job but no kids or pets and don't go on expensive holidays and I can only afford the occasional piece here and there, and then those will be towards the bottom of the market. This is due to the cost of living, having a mortgage etc sapping all my earning before I can spend them on lovely shiny pointy things.

I'm also fortunate that my fiancée shares my interest in arms and armour, albeit not quite to the same level as me. If I had more outgoings and a missus less interested in my hobby I would imagine that I wouldn't be much of a collector myself. As it is, most of the time I have to make do with collecting photographs of weapons and books on the subject rather than the real thing.

Perhaps somewhat erroneously, I have assumed that the reason that the majority of collectors are older are that generation has paid off their mortgages and doesn't have any dependants, possibly retired, and therefore has more time and money to lavish on their interests.

It could just be that the older generation has more of a an general interest in history than the younger generation. This certainly seems to be true of my colleagues at work, it's difficult to find someone of my years or younger to have a decent conversation with!

[Iain]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Pleased to see the thread is "back on track".
I think that Shimmerxxx's post hits the nail on the head. Over the years the price of antique weapons has increased hugely, cost of living has gone up, and the economic situation worldwide has steadily got worse. All this has a bearing on what we collect and what we can AFFORD to collect.Certainly a partner/wife who also takes an interest, is a huge help to the man who collects.
DON'T FORGET THAT WE ALSO HAVE LADY MEMBERS HERE.
I suspect that age may not be as easily published , but time the Lady has been collecting would be of interest.
Regards Stu

Cost is the main reason many do not indulge an interest in antique arms I think. Most people I know find my collection interesting - but are somewhat staggered by the investment it takes. It takes a fair bit of sacrifice for most of us I would guess to put the money into this hobby. On the plus side I like putting my spare cash into something that will be around for years and years.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Iain

Cost is the main reason many do not indulge an interest in antique arms I think. Most people I know find my collection interesting - but are somewhat staggered by the investment it takes. It takes a fair bit of sacrifice for most of us I would guess to put the money into this hobby. On the plus side I like putting my spare cash into something that will be around for years and years.

I know some young collectors with a lot more money than me, just if there under 40 they dont seem to collect weapons......

Just old moter bikes, rare guitars, cameras, certan watches... stuff like that.

/j

[Mefidk]

I'm 48 - I've had a long time interest in weapons since my younger days as martial artist and then fencer (not hard to see why I like swords). I got my first replica katana at 21 but then it was many years before I could afford to venture into antique weapons (for all the reasons mentioned by others), probably started actually seriously studying and collecting about 5 years ago. Seems like when I was young I could actually use the things, in the intervening years I had neither time nor money, and now I can't use them I can start to afford nice old weapons

[rickystl]

Hello all!! Interesting Thread. Don't know how I missed the earlier Posts?
I am 62. My first item was a machete I paid $3.50 for in 1959.
I do have a few blades in my collection, but mostly firearms. I have both original and custom made replicas that I collect and shoot. American, European, and Ethnographic. I belong to a local (33 miles away) private gun club.
My main area of interest is Ethnographic firearms. I've wanted a Moroccan Snaphaunce since I was about 14 years old, but never did anything about it. Well, about 45 years later, I now own two. One in shooting condition and the other will be sometime next year. I own a variety of Moroccan, Algerian, Turkish, Persian, Indian, Afghan, etc. pistols and long arms. My favorite pass time is refurbishing these Ethnographic firearms into safe shooting condition. I've only Posted a couple of these refurbished pieces here on the Forum. I guess I should Post some more. By early Summer, 2013 I should have a large variety of these guns completed. A friend has talked me into doing a series of You-Tube type videos with me actually shooting these guns. Even loading with original flasks/horns.
I guess I've been collecting since I was about 12 years old. What I call my collecting hobby, my late wife called a disease. Of which there is no known cure. Now, if my bank account can only keep up with me.
It is such a pleasure to be a member of this Forum. Rick.

[Atlantia]

I also hope that those rarest of Weapon collectors *hushed tone*
"The Ladies!" Will also join in with the thread.

As Jonathan says, weapon ownership in the UK is somewhat frowned upon and after many years of misrepresentation of collectable (those no longer usable or intended to be used) weapons by the media, many people sadly do seem to see those who 'still' collect them as being in some way either aggressive or maladjusted.

Many small 'traders' shy away from any weapons here now (even edged ones). They are sometimes 'unsure' of the overly complex laws surrounding weapon ownership and many venues won't allow their sale anyway.

Which takes us onto 'what attracted us' to collecting these cultural icons.
When I was a child, I grew up on a diet of Zorro, the Three Musketeers, Robin Hood.
I went to school and was taught about history including the Empires and wars, the great battles and pivotal moments where history's great cultures and ideologies clashed.
When I was a child I loved my toy swords and guns.
I remember my father making me a wooden sword when I was about four years old and how I treasured that sword as it didn't buckle like the hollow plastic 'crusader swords' that could be bought in Woolworths!

But these were different times! Even in the 1970s/80s you would often see swords on peoples walls. Pub 'decor' was not complete without a sword or two hanging on the wall or a muzzle loader over the fire.

But then something changed.
It took a while but the end result was quite profound.
The emphasis in teaching history in schools was moved to economic and social history.
The laws on edged weapons were tightened and tightened further still.
And 'anti social behaviour' was linked to all manner of causes including violence on TV, violent play in children, toys, video games etc, etc...
But I think most importantly, weapon ownership (that was deemed to be 'without good cause') was made 'illegitimate' in the minds of the general public.
Over the years, people have asked me "Why" do I "need" to own these weapons?
Which makes me wonder whether they would ask a collector of antique porcelain dolls 'why?' they 'need' to own toys that they will never 'play' with?
Or a coin collector why they would own money they would never spend?

As though the lack of ability to use an antique weapon for it’s primary purpose invalidates it’s historic 'worth' as an item.

Which leads the rambling waters of my river of thought to my next point.
I think that the cultural connection to the blade has been severed in the UK.

I can’t imagine anyone questioning the mental stability of a collector of nihonto in Japan! But the sword is every bit as iconic an item to European culture as to Japanese, in fact I could easily argue that it is MORE important to European history and culture!

So is blade ownership in the UK or more specifically the once widespread appreciation of vintage and antique blades now destined to join the category of ‘nostalgia collectables’ as in the main the collectors are those brought up with what is now an anachronistic appreciation of them, and as such we are a diminishing 'breed'?

Do British collectors any longer have any natural successors to bequeath their collections to?
Or are ’we’ destined to become the next set of ’old boys’ with their train-set dioramas in the attic? Or like collectors of ‘tin plate toys’ and nobody who wants to inherit them?
If so it will be the foreign collectors who save the value of our items, but many will eventually end up going overseas.

Sorry for rambling on. Thanks to anyone who stuck with it this far!

[Shimmerxxx]

Originally Posted by spiral

I know some young collectors with a lot more money than me, just if there under 40 they dont seem to collect weapons......

Just old moter bikes, rare guitars, cameras, certan watches... stuff like that.

/j

...hmm all things that they can show off in public to impress the ladies.

The only attention from the fairer sex I'd get showing off my latest acquisitions would be a policewoman with a taser.

But yes, there does seem to be a misunderstanding in the media about us, and that makes it hard talking about our hobby outside of like minded company.


And excellent post Atlantia, you had many good things to say there.

[spiral]

Very accurate, conscise & well worded statement of the issue Gene...

I see your point shimmer, but by the same token I ve found women a lot more accepting of a few walls covererd in kukris ,swords & knives then most "modern" men... The women go O wow hes a real bloke into that sort of stuff..& accept it easily.Where some men go, O wow hes got things that can kill people.. {read subtext ..me..}.. & due to thier own insecuraties feel threatend..

Girlies seem to accecpt my hobbies... soft lads feel threatend... :in my expierience...shrug:

Spiral

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Gene,
To follow on from your deliberations a selection of T.V. programmes shown at 5 p.m. weekdays when I was a lad. Things were definitely different in those days. I remember vividly as an adjunct to our History lessons our teacher arranged to take us to Kelvingrove Museum and once there the class was taken down into the basement and given a lecture on Medieval Arms and Armour complete with the curator dressed in a suit of armour handing round actual weapons for us to look at, I was 9 years old, happy days. The Museum used to be 'chock a block' with A&A including an Ethnographic Hall, now there is one small gallery upstairs for everything. It is very sad as Kelvingrove has one of the best collections in the World mostly in storage now. It seems anachronistic to me that movies and games are so much more violent and visually graphic these days and yet historical A&A is hidden away and shunned like a leper. As a kid everybody had a 'tin hat' and a bayonet or two with badges, patches and the like, I suppose this was more due to the period being in the first few decades after the war and these things were readily available at not a lot of money and no stigma attached to collecting these objects. My mother always knew what kind of movie was on at the local cinema on a Saturday afternoon as the children, me included, would be coming up the road fencing, pulling bows or drawing six guns all imaginary of course the game continuing all week until the next Saturday and another visit to the cinema. Both my children, boy and girl, played with wooden swords, "By the power of Greyskull", and toy guns and when old enough an air rifle and pistol, amongst other things of course, and neither of them are raging sword swinging gun toting bampots in direct contradiction to what some would have us believe. There are some young and energetic collectors in our Forum Family and hopefully they will keep the flame going and if there are any more out there who are interested JOIN IN you don't have to spend a fortune to have an interesting time here.
My Regards,
Norman.

[David]

Without doing an actual calculation i'd say we seem to be averaging somewhere in the 50s.