Publications On Iraqi Arms?

Jim McDougall · 16th October 2012, 03:19 PM

Lofty thank you so much for the response and info, quid pro quo! Outstanding, and exciting to be learning more on these terms. As always applied terms offer considerable challenges in ethnographic weapon typology and nomenclature.
I am curious on the terms used in the Riyadh publication I noted, and interesting to know there are distinctions in the 'badawi' and 'Najd' hilt forms on saif. Could you say more on this? I am wondering also on the 'badawi' term, which I had presumed was with regard to wide occurrence with a full range of Bedouin tribes.
Incidentally, I really look forward to information you share on these fascinating tribal groups! While incredibly complex, this history is entirely intriguing and little known to the west, with the exception of the material in Elgood's "Arms and Armour of Arabia". I'm glad you mentioned it! I had not really forgotten it, but could not locate my copy, buried in the strata here in the bookmobile

There also was the elusive notes on the marsh Arab daggers, which I now realize seem to have a rather characteristic peaked pommel from the other khanjhars with this type hilt, if I understand correctly.

In the thread you linked you noted that the akfa term used for these daggers meant 'the curve' but they were also termed shalfa. Are these words dialectic or varying descriptively? It seems the example shown has a dramatic curve, and perhaps types with less so might be called differently?

On the Iraqi shamshirs, it is interesting that these seem to have the collective character of Persian, Badawi and Syrian types with the exception of the absence of pommel cap as you describe. Would this possibly be a local anomaly with the group if collected together, or possibly a defining characteristic?
We definitely do need more help in these classifications, which actually are clearly far more complex than the obviously broad presumptions carried in far too general references.

Great stuff Lofty!! I hope we can develop some of this further, and learn more on these weapons along with thier associations with Bedouin and Kurdish tribal groups.
All the very best, and thank you again,
Jim

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16th October 2012, 03:19 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Lofty thank you so much for the response and info, quid pro quo! Outstanding, and exciting to be learning more on these terms. As always applied terms offer considerable challenges in ethnographic weapon typology and nomenclature. I am curious on the terms used in the Riyadh publication I noted, and interesting to know there are distinctions in the 'badawi' and 'Najd' hilt forms on saif. Could you say more on this? I am wondering also on the 'badawi' term, which I had presumed was with regard to wide occurrence with a full range of Bedouin tribes. Incidentally, I really look forward to information you share on these fascinating tribal groups! While incredibly complex, this history is entirely intriguing and little known to the west, with the exception of the material in Elgood's "Arms and Armour of Arabia". I'm glad you mentioned it! I had not really forgotten it, but could not locate my copy, buried in the strata here in the bookmobile There also was the elusive notes on the marsh Arab daggers, which I now realize seem to have a rather characteristic peaked pommel from the other khanjhars with this type hilt, if I understand correctly. In the thread you linked you noted that the akfa term used for these daggers meant 'the curve' but they were also termed shalfa. Are these words dialectic or varying descriptively? It seems the example shown has a dramatic curve, and perhaps types with less so might be called differently? On the Iraqi shamshirs, it is interesting that these seem to have the collective character of Persian, Badawi and Syrian types with the exception of the absence of pommel cap as you describe. Would this possibly be a local anomaly with the group if collected together, or possibly a defining characteristic? We definitely do need more help in these classifications, which actually are clearly far more complex than the obviously broad presumptions carried in far too general references. Great stuff Lofty!! I hope we can develop some of this further, and learn more on these weapons along with thier associations with Bedouin and Kurdish tribal groups. All the very best, and thank you again, Jim