Special sword for ID and comments

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Iain, a quick question to you and the rest of the forum: I've seen a number of dealers and websites note "the Kabyle people of Algeria and part of Morocco."
Could anyone point to where this (misunderstanding I think) first popped up?

Hi Emanuel
sorry to have completely over pass that important question,
I noticed several times, here or there, the confusion about the BerberS
(they are several) population in "Great Maghreb"
we are not facing different tribes, but really different population groups,
who have in comnun, the language and alphabet (tamazigh), and
the fact to have been landowner for the country before the Arabic invasions
but, each group have singularities very special, i.e. ;

- Kabyles have a "flissa" but Tuaregs have a "Katouba"
- Kabyles are sedentary mountain-people, and Tuaregs are nomades from deep Sahara,
more than 2000 km between them ...
- Mozabites, as far I know, never have a specific weapons, they are "traders",
if they are trading almost everything, as principle, they are against the weapons for themselves ...

I may continue for long to list the differences between each group,
to give you an opportunity of clarify this imbroglio,
I extracted from "wikipedia" 2 documents, one it's in English, 2nd in French, so sorry
hoping thereby, it will start to be more clearer for you all,
I spent 6 years in these parts, and this subject become familiar to me,
at the beggining has been ... an ink-pot ... for me also



à +

Dom

ps/ I discovered this interesting subject, because I was ready to present my last input ... a "long flissa"

[M ELEY]

I'm wondering if some of the confusion, besides Stone, lies with the Barbary Corsairs. This loose conglomeration was made up of Moroccan Berbers (thus the Barbary term), Algerians and Ottoman Turks. Again, I know the corsairs were all thrown together even though they were distinct groups, but many think of them as one big group-

[Rick]

I wonder if one can correlate the various types of vessels from the area (and period) with their ethnic occupants or home port .

Or was it 'Chowder' as you say .

[Emanuel]

Thank you Dom!

A year ago I had posted some closer maps of the Iflissen villages and their location in the Maghreb: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=140312

I had not realized, however, that Berberophone populations were so isolated. This might be due to the inhospitable nature of the country though. I'll overlay this data with the known population settlements to compare.

All the best!
Emanuel

[Dom]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I'm wondering if some of the confusion, besides Stone, lies with the Barbary Corsairs. This loose conglomeration was made up of Moroccan Berbers (thus the Barbary term), Algerians and Ottoman Turks. Again, I know the corsairs were all thrown together even though they were distinct groups, but many think of them as one big group-

Hi Eley
to try to clarify a little bit ... about "barbarians" (don't mix up with rugby team )
The countries of northern Africa that lie along the Mediterranean Sea comprise the Barbary Coast are;
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt.
Maps from 17th century are recorded them as well, see attached map
- Year of Origin: 1603
- Title: Barbaria Africana, Et Biledvlgerid.
Barbariam olim Phoenices incohiere, er alu qui ex Asia et Aegypto....
- Language: Latin
- Publish Origin: Cologne

The name "Barbary Coast" comes from the "Berber" who are the people of the region,
the name became associated with pirates of the 16th through 19th centuries.

The term "Berber" is a variation of the Latin original word "Barbarian",
it's not a reference to a person, who is uncivilized
the Romans applied it to tribes or nations which had not received the Greek or Roman education,
even if they once had, their own developed civilization

other points who could do the difference,
- the Kabyle population is mainly mountaineers, and not seamen
- even in our days, without to be a majority, remains some Christians,
never been converted to Islam, due to their remote locations on mountains
- the mountains altitude in "High Kabylia" are an average from 1000 to 2000 meters,
their highest villages at around 800/900 meters
watch pic's from "Emanuel" post
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=140312

à +

Dom

[Emanuel]

Very interesting map Dom!

"Biledvlgerid" would be "Biled Ulgerid" or "le bled Algérien", the Algerian hinterland. I know Algiers itself dates from the 10th century, but it's interesting to see an Algerian appellation in European maps of the 1600s.

Emanuel