INDO PERSIAN TABAR AXE

[ariel]

The crucial distinction between the real fighting axes and the parade/souvenir ones is the presence or absence of a wedged blade. The real ones had it, the souvenirs didn't. While there might be exceptions, no fighting axe would have a flat, thin head. Only in Africa :-)
Agree with Qajar/ceremonial :-) attribution.

[Cerjak]

Thank you Ibrahiim,Ariel & AJ 1356 for yours answers.there isn't any screw turns in the axe handle.So it should be parade axe.
But could you explain me what means ceremonial axe ?Is it made
for tourists ?In this case this axe will not have any interest.

[ariel]

During the Qajar era, Iran made frantic efforts to modernize their country in general and military in particular. Western-type weapons, bladed included, were imported and copied locally en masse. The old style weapons were discarded rapidly. Tabars, bazu-bands, shields, kula-khuds all became anachronistic. Thus, there was no reason to produce them for military use, but tey did look exotic! Instead, their cheap copies of non-fighting quality were manufactured for tourists, for parades, Tazieh performances and for export as souvenirs. The standard set of tin-iron kula-khud, shield with acid-etched or engraved decorative pics and a single bazu-band was a popular object of Western home decor ( akin to Victorian copies of European armour). Add there the so-called "revival swords" ( suspiciously similar to the newer Sudanese kaskaras with thin blades and koranic acid-etched inscriptions all over them), khanjars with ivory handles and Shah-Nameh or just pornographic motives and tabars with thin flat blades, and you get the idea.

Before the oil era, this scrap metal and carpets were, I suspect, the main sources of export coming from Iran. Having come through a multitude of dealers and pawn shops, they are now flooding the e-bay.

I would not touch them.

Well, maybe just a carpet :-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Thank you Ibrahiim,Ariel & AJ 1356 for yours answers.there isn't any screw turns in the axe handle.So it should be parade axe.
But could you explain me what means ceremonial axe ?Is it made
for tourists ?In this case this axe will not have any interest.

Sallams Cerjac ~I concur on avoid. What are worth collecting are the saddle axe variety not these fake so called parade axes which are as previously described ... tourist stuff. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Cerjak]

ok I don't like tourist items ,I have some helmets, sheld etc too and I hope they are not all made for tourist market because thy had cost me a lot...
I somebody have some pics about from good indopersian helmet I will be happy to see.

Regards

Cerjak

[Stan S.]

Sorry to dissapoint you, Cerjak, but that helmet is most definetely a tourist item and likely of a fairly recent manufacture (late 20th century). The telltale signs are a non-sliding (welded) nasal and the "horns" - not a very practical feature to carry on your head in battle

Your axe on the other hand, looks like a good period example (mid to late 19th century). While it mostly resembles a parade weapon, it's less lavish than usual decoration makes me believe that it could have more functionality than just a display item. The haft is not likely to be a made out of a barrel. These Persian axes are known for having hollow metal hafts almost exclusively. The lack of any finale at the botom makes me think that it was designed to conseal a stiletto, which appears to be missing now. Seeing any internal threading at the end of the haft would verify that.

Overall I think it is a lovely axe that would compliment any collection of Indo Persan arms.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Stan S.

Sorry to dissapoint you, Cerjak, but that helmet is most definetely a tourist item and likely of a fairly recent manufacture (late 20th century). The telltale signs are a non-sliding (welded) nasal and the "horns" - not a very practical feature to carry on your head in battle

Your axe on the other hand, looks like a good period example (mid to late 19th century). While it mostly resembles a parade weapon, it's less lavish than usual decoration makes me believe that it could have more functionality than just a display item. The haft is not likely to be a made out of a barrel. These Persian axes are known for having hollow metal hafts almost exclusively. The lack of any finale at the botom makes me think that it was designed to conseal a stiletto, which appears to be missing now. Seeing any internal threading at the end of the haft would verify that.

Overall I think it is a lovely axe that would compliment any collection of Indo Persan arms.

I agree with you on the Axe Stan. Its unusual for the shaft to be totally straight with no 'pommel'.

Cerjak, is the hanlde end hollow?Is there a thread inside?


But the helmet might still at least be an old one.
These horned demon face ones with the fixed position nasal guards are not 'war helmets', but I think some are at least old. I think a load came to the UK for the great exhibition of 1851.
The chainmail looks right to me. The link diameter, the brass links for decoration, the overall shape.
Cerjak, are the links butted or closed?

[Stan S.]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I agree with you on the Axe Stan. Its unusual for the shaft to be totally straight with no 'pommel'.

Cerjak, is the hanlde end hollow?Is there a thread inside?


But the helmet might still at least be an old one.
These horned demon face ones with the fixed position nasal guards are not 'war helmets', but I think some are at least old. I think a load came to the UK for the great exhibition of 1851.
The chainmail looks right to me. The link diameter, the brass links for decoration, the overall shape.
Cerjak, are the links butted or closed?

I think annother important question to ask is whether or not this helmet has a liner, remains of a liner, or anything resembeling attachment points for a liner. Personally, I have never seen a repro Indo Persian helmet with a liner other than a single layer of fabric glued to the underside as a protection from rust. So, a presence of proper padded liner or its remanants should settle this debate. In the mean time I still think it's a fairly modern piece

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I agree with you on the Axe Stan. Its unusual for the shaft to be totally straight with no 'pommel'.

Cerjak, is the hanlde end hollow?Is there a thread inside?


But the helmet might still at least be an old one.
These horned demon face ones with the fixed position nasal guards are not 'war helmets', but I think some are at least old. I think a load came to the UK for the great exhibition of 1851.
The chainmail looks right to me. The link diameter, the brass links for decoration, the overall shape.
Cerjak, are the links butted or closed?

Forum Search !
Salaams Atlantia ~ These helmets look like parade items as discussed ... I have seen postcards with Persian horsemen riding about in the 1920s wearing all their regalia like lost Knights of Old..

Back to the axe conundrum~ I was searching for references and lo and behold on Forum Search ! See "Sikh soldier" thread called Nice Indo Persian Axe and see # 28 Atlantia post for the perfect example of Persian Saddle Axes... I believe from my reference Anthony North Islamic Arms and Armour.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

The chainmail looks right to me. The link diameter, the brass links for decoration, the overall shape.

Hi
yes for the "chain-mail", it's an old one, adapted on an Indian helmet,
the doubt is patent in this case
just have a look here, plenty ... same model ;


here below a Qajar helmet, with his chain-mail,
it hasn't mask and horn, but it's a real, not a copy,
easy to see the difference of metal work

à +

Dom