A strange weapon (tool?) with arabic marking

[Devadatta]

Dear colleagues,

That's what appeared recently at our local arms forum, its' owner doesn't know what it is and neither do I, but it seems for me it's hardly a weapon but maybe a tool of a carpenter, or a kitchen tool (?). It also has some marking in arabic


Please judge...thank you all in advance!

[kahnjar1]

Any dimensions? Looks as if it could be a chisel of some sort. Does the knob at the top show any signs of having been hit?
Regards Stuart

[spiral]

Interesting piece, Id guess a kitchen tool, could be cleaver,tenderiser,flipper etc.

Are any of the edges sharp? If so which?

Spiral

[AJ1356]

Interesting item, no idea what it is however. Not a cooking tool, or for any kind of cleaving, not sure of the size but could be a shoemakers tool. Anyways, the 2 smaps in the bottom read استاد شبان Ustaad Shabaan. Ustaad means a teacher as well as a master, so it could be make by Ustaad Shabaan or was for him. Shabaan is a name but also means shepard. Get me a better picture of the top stamo and I can see what it reads.

[Atlantia]

Looks like a builders 'brick chisel' or stonemasons tool.
The mushroom end suggests it was to be struck.
I'm guessing it is 'sharp' on the opposite end, not on the sides?

[ALEX]

This is Persian meat cleaver. probably of Qajar period.

[AJ1356]

Now if we say it is a meat cleaver from some back wood island nation that did not have any concepts of simple Physics, then sure why not it is a meat cleaver. But so say it is a meat cleaver from a part of the world that probably invented meat cleavers (did a wiki and aparently chinese did the invention which persia traded with for 1000s of years) then that is just plain silly.

meat cleaver

[Rick]

Without more and better pictures and a better description of the piece we are going to have a hard time with identification ..

[spiral]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

Now if we say it is a meat cleaver from some back wood island nation that did not have any concepts of simple Physics, then sure why not it is a meat cleaver.

I am assuming it is possible that we are seeing the tang & forged pommel at that one time had a wooden or leather handle?

As Rick stated Dimensions, description & good photos are needed.

Spiral

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

Now if we say it is a meat cleaver from some back wood island nation that did not have any concepts of simple Physics, then sure why not it is a meat cleaver. But so say it is a meat cleaver from a part of the world that probably invented meat cleavers (did a wiki and aparently chinese did the invention which persia traded with for 1000s of years) then that is just plain silly.

no need for Physics or any other science. one either knows/bases an opinion on some related data, or thinks he knows ...

[Atlantia]

Wow, great catch Alex, I wouldn't have guessed.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by spiral

Interesting piece, Id guess a kitchen tool, could be cleaver,tenderiser,flipper etc.

Are any of the edges sharp? If so which?

Spiral

And good catch Spiral too! I didn't peg it as a cleaver.

[ALEX]

this one is easy. its all in the books

[AJ1356]

I dunno, to me it just does not make sense that all along people were using regular meat cleavers and all of a sudden they went retarded and started making not so useful meatcleavers. All the classical books I had read when I was younger depiced them as we see them now, even today I checked my old Persian dictionary and surprisingly it had a drawing of a meatcleaver that looked as it does today. who knows, then again Western books gave many wrong names to items that make the local people and wonder where in hell did they come up with that name for that item, since we don't know it by that name.

[Stan S.]

This meat cleaver is probably designed to break through bones (hence it is more of a sturdy wedge to be struck with a hammer, rather than being lighter axe-like implement). I am very curious however as to why some are rather lavishly decorated? Clealry not a tool of a simple butcher... Were these intended to be used at the table rather than in the kitchen? And if so, are there any specific traditions/customs surrounding their use?

[Devadatta]

Thank you all very much! Unfortunatelly it's not mine and I don't kniw the dimensions, while the original owner is still offline.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Stan S.

...I am very curious however as to why some are rather lavishly decorated? Clealry not a tool of a simple butcher...

Stan, regarding the "lavish" decor - the're all acid etched, which is considered the "lowest" form of decoration. this is the easiest and most mass--production method which requires very little skill and also least expensive.
Do not let the "intricacy" of depiction full you. It is very simple and was done in bundles by the lowest-paid workers using the same template (likely to fetch a bit more money for being "decorated"), but the prestige of such decoration is according.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

Now if we say it is a meat cleaver from some back wood island nation that did not have any concepts of simple Physics, then sure why not it is a meat cleaver. But so say it is a meat cleaver from a part of the world that probably invented meat cleavers (did a wiki and aparently chinese did the invention which persia traded with for 1000s of years) then that is just plain silly.

meat cleaver

Well. it is a type of meat cleaver.. not the only meat cleaver they have in this area there is quite a few different types...... in iran for example there is several styles traditionally .. some look more like a typical cleaver but with a pinned tang and very thick blade some up to 15mm thick. the modern european cleaver is are a recent product and is still mostly preferred with only northern europeans. southern europe and the balkans have several typical styles of their own. in russia and eastern central europe and central asia a meat axe is preferred, in medieval northern continental europe knives looking like a giant golok with a open front wooden sheath were standard for larger work , some with blades almost 3 feet.
then an axe used for the smaller work. not at all what is used today

[drac2k]

Meat Cleaver or not? Recently Imperial auctions sold a similar item, and called it a "Persian Cleaver,Oajar Dynasty,Characteristically carried in Muharram processions." This one appeared to be gold inlaid(not etched), and of good quality.
I now see one advertised in Fagan Arms as an "18th Century Persian Executioner's Ax;"Have any other opinions emerged since 2012 ?

[ariel]

I think that "torture tool" or "executioner's tool" might be more enticing and exciting than just a "butcher's cleaver" ( for a certain kind of creeps, at least). Brings more moola.
Several times in my e-bay career I came upon a misidentified beheading sword offered for a song. Did not even bid on it. Did not want it to enter my house even for a moment.

[drac2k]

So do you have an opinion as to the nature of this item ?

[ariel]

Sorry, were you asking me?

Just a butcher's cleaver, as was said by Alex.

[drac2k]

Thanks.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by drac2k

So do you have an opinion as to the nature of this item ?

yes it's a Persian cleaver as it was brilliantly demonstrated by Alex!