Flea Market find

A. G. Maisey · 21st June 2011, 11:41 PM

Actually, there is a Bali-Madura connection.

Way back in time there was a Balinese attempt to invade Sumenep. It failed, and the Sultan of Sumenep gave the invaders the choice of death, or of becoming his subjects. They decided Sumenep was a pretty nice place to live, so the Sultan gave each of the invaders a wife, and land.

It has occurred to me that some of the confusion about keris origins could be brought on, to a degree, by the difference in our European based attitudes as opposed to the attitudes on the peoples of Maritime South East Asia.

We tend to think of water as a barrier:- islands are separate entities , the two banks of a river can well be different entities. This is not the mind-set of the peoples of M.S.E. Asia.

Indonesians of today refer to their country as "Tanah Air Kita" :- "Our Land and Our Water". They do not think of Indonesia as a collection of separate pieces of land, that are islands, they think of the entire area of land and water as their country.

As far as I can determine, this attitude has been ingrained historically. Thus, rivers are not barriers, they are highways, the sea between islands is not a barrier, it facilitates communication.

A good example of this difference in thinking is this:-

we think of Jawa and Madura as separate places, separate islands; for some people Jawa keris are desireable, Madura keris are a little less desirable; however, Madura is a part of East Jawa, and East Jawa is a part of Jawa. Certainly there is water between Jawa and Madura, but that was never a barrier to Madura being considered a part of Jawa, just as the other provinces are all parts of Jawa --- and now there is a bridge that stretches from Surabaya on the Javanese coast to Madura.

Consider:- if all of M.S.E. Asia were to be squeezed into a single solid mass of land, with no water in between the presently existing islands, would we still try to make such a clear distinction between a keris of Balinese style that came from Klungkung, and a keris of Balinese style that came from Lombok?

Perhaps we need to take a step back from our current way of classifying a keris and consider classification along cultural lines, rather than geographic lines. Please note:- this is just the germ of an idea, I am not espousing anything of this nature at the present time.

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21st June 2011, 11:41 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,049	Actually, there is a Bali-Madura connection. Way back in time there was a Balinese attempt to invade Sumenep. It failed, and the Sultan of Sumenep gave the invaders the choice of death, or of becoming his subjects. They decided Sumenep was a pretty nice place to live, so the Sultan gave each of the invaders a wife, and land. It has occurred to me that some of the confusion about keris origins could be brought on, to a degree, by the difference in our European based attitudes as opposed to the attitudes on the peoples of Maritime South East Asia. We tend to think of water as a barrier:- islands are separate entities , the two banks of a river can well be different entities. This is not the mind-set of the peoples of M.S.E. Asia. Indonesians of today refer to their country as "Tanah Air Kita" :- "Our Land and Our Water". They do not think of Indonesia as a collection of separate pieces of land, that are islands, they think of the entire area of land and water as their country. As far as I can determine, this attitude has been ingrained historically. Thus, rivers are not barriers, they are highways, the sea between islands is not a barrier, it facilitates communication. A good example of this difference in thinking is this:- we think of Jawa and Madura as separate places, separate islands; for some people Jawa keris are desireable, Madura keris are a little less desirable; however, Madura is a part of East Jawa, and East Jawa is a part of Jawa. Certainly there is water between Jawa and Madura, but that was never a barrier to Madura being considered a part of Jawa, just as the other provinces are all parts of Jawa --- and now there is a bridge that stretches from Surabaya on the Javanese coast to Madura. Consider:- if all of M.S.E. Asia were to be squeezed into a single solid mass of land, with no water in between the presently existing islands, would we still try to make such a clear distinction between a keris of Balinese style that came from Klungkung, and a keris of Balinese style that came from Lombok? Perhaps we need to take a step back from our current way of classifying a keris and consider classification along cultural lines, rather than geographic lines. Please note:- this is just the germ of an idea, I am not espousing anything of this nature at the present time.