Big score! (or how I blew a months wages...) :(

[Atlantia]

Ha too slow, so...
I'm going to tease you with them one at a time

Here is an interesting thing.
It's from an old collection and was labeled 'Double Kembar/ Golok' from the original collectors notes.

Some of the mounts are aluminium, so it's 20thC.

Blades apear to have lamination flaws and are very well shaped, good and solid with a definate 'oriental' feel to them, not thin and crappy tourist blades made from 'whatever' reclaimed metal.
I know how double weapons interest you chaps and I've not seen one of these before.
Any information appreciated.
Anyone?

[kino]

Whoa!
What a tease! Nice score!
Post some photos of that Kris. Congrats.

[Gustav]

This is interesting. Double weapons are of course bound to chinese fighting systems. Donn F. Draeger in his book "The weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia" describes a fighting system called Kuntao. After a quick lecture I have an impression, Kuntao can be found in places in Indonesia with an intact chinese community, which probably means ewerywhere; Sumatra, Java, Madura, Sulawesi (Makassar) are mentioned. On page 207, there a sinistre looking guy with two similar choppers is depicted (illustrating Kuntao in Makassar), yet they are called Parang (probably the Parang Upacara mentioned in Zonneveld, the source beeing Draeger )

These could be Javanese, they are very popular in Sunda.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Gustav

This is interesting. Double weapons are of course bound to chinese fighting systems. Donn F. Draeger in his book "The weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia" describes a fighting system called Kuntao. After a quick lecture I have an impression, Kuntao can be found in places in Indonesia with an intact chinese community, which probably means ewerywhere; Sumatra, Java, Madura, Sulawesi (Makassar) are mentioned. On page 207, there a sinistre looking guy with two similar choppers is depicted (illustrating Kuntao in Makassar), yet they are called Parang (probably the Parang Upacara mentioned in Zonneveld, the source beeing Draeger )

These could be Javanese, they are very popular in Sunda.

Ah! Thanks Gustav,

Would clearer pictures be any help?
Thanks Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by kino

Whoa!
What a tease! Nice score!
Post some photos of that Kris. Congrats.

Hi Kino,

Will do
It's not a posh one though, so don't have your expectations too high.

Best
Gene

[Maurice]

Hi Gene,

These double Javanese goloks are also still made today, not for tourists, but mostly for silat practitioners.
I think this combination is also one of those pieces.
But they're made deadly sharp most of the time, and ready for use, though not antique....
I could be wrong, but I've seen these kinds several times come by here, used in Silat classes for practice....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

Nice score with the golok, Gene! To be strictly correct, it is a Golok Ganda (double), as opposed to a Golok Kembar (twin). Thus, I would call it a Golok Djanoer Ganda.
At a glance, it looks like a recently-made one from H. Aas of Tjibatoe.

Best,

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Gene,

These double Javanese goloks are also still made today, not for tourists, but mostly for silat practitioners.
I think this combination is also one of those pieces.
But they're made deadly sharp most of the time, and ready for use, though not antique....
I could be wrong, but I've seen these kinds several times come by here, used in Silat classes for practice....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

Hi Maurice,

Thanks for the info.
I agree it's not antique. Aluminium where you'd hope for silver
But some signs of age, oxidisation of brass and shrinkage of the wood slightly.
Allegedly the collection it came from stopped 'growing' some time ago, so hopefully at least vintage
These double weapons are interesting aren't they?

Best
Gene

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Maurice,

Thanks for the info.
I agree it's not antique. Aluminium where you'd hope for silver
But some signs of age, oxidisation of brass and shrinkage of the wood slightly.
Allegedly the collection it came from stopped 'growing' some time ago, so hopefully at least vintage
These double weapons are interesting aren't they?

Best
Gene

Hi Gene,

Are it signs of age or signs of use? ;-)

I myself like these double blades in one scabbard a lot, as a martial art practitioner... (though not as explosive and fanatical I used to be one time in my better days).

Best wishes,
Maurice

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Gene,

Are it signs of age or signs of use? ;-)

I myself like these double blades in one scabbard a lot, as a martial art practitioner... (though not as explosive and fanatical I used to be one time in my better days).

Best wishes,
Maurice

Hi Maurice,

I'd say that it's some signs of age, not use. No edge knicks.
I could be wrong though, it has happened before

I'd like to see you swinging these about Maurice! They are well made things, feel fast and dangerous, I bet they'd lend themselves to a great display!

Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo everybody,

Nice score with the golok, Gene! To be strictly correct, it is a Golok Ganda (double), as opposed to a Golok Kembar (twin). Thus, I would call it a Golok Djanoer Ganda.
At a glance, it looks like a recently-made one from H. Aas of Tjibatoe.

Best,

Thats interesting, are they all recent? As I say, these 'seem' to have some age, and are supposed to have....
Are they all recent?

Best
gene

[Henk]

Gene,

Very nice. A double golok from West Java. As said still made until today.
My teacher brought an almost identical one for me, special made on the length of my arm to use it in the right way. As mentioned for practising Pencak Silat. Take a look here and watch the whole film. Especially the second part is very nice to see the teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0smgbJsBd0A
This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0DDdTd-i0 shows you the golok laying on the ground. At the end of the film you see the emblem with the golok in it.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Henk

Gene,

Very nice. A double golok from West Java. As said still made until today.
My teacher brought an almost identical one for me, special made on the length of my arm to use it in the right way. As mentioned for practising Pencak Silat. Take a look here and watch the whole film. Especially the second part is very nice to see the teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0smgbJsBd0A
This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0DDdTd-i0 shows you the golok laying on the ground. At the end of the film you see the emblem with the golok in it.

Excellent, thanks Henk.
The young lad in yellow at the beginning of the second film is amazing! I'd never have had such dedication at such a young age.
I see what you mean about the Goloks.
My pair were allegedly collected prior to the early 50s, do you think thats possible?

Have you seen this girl with twing Goloks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaLYXZ4wAZY

Thanks
Gene

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Ha too slow, so...
I'm going to tease you with them one at a time

Here is an interesting thing.
It's from an old collection and was labeled 'Double Kembar/ Golok' from the original collectors notes.

Some of the mounts are aluminium, so it's 20thC.

Blades apear to have lamination flaws and are very well shaped, good and solid with a definate 'oriental' feel to them, not thin and crappy tourist blades made from 'whatever' reclaimed metal.
I know how double weapons interest you chaps and I've not seen one of these before.
Any information appreciated.
Anyone?

Haha, I saw the group image whilst it was up....keep em coming!!!

Gav

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Haha, I saw the group image whilst it was up....keep em coming!!!

Gav

Me too....waiting for the balato.... ;-)

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Me too....waiting for the balato.... ;-)

Really? Whats' a Balato?

Edit; Oh right, thats what that is!!!
Coming up in the next hour

[Henk]

Gene,

Yes, i've seen the girl. If you look for, golok pang lipur, you will find more.

Early 50s is very good possible for your pair. Is your scabbard made of buffalo horn as well? or is it wood? The dress of my goloks is completely made from buffalo horn.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Henk

Gene,

Yes, i've seen the girl. If you look for, golok pang lipur, you will find more.

Early 50s is very good possible for your pair. Is your scabbard made of buffalo horn as well? or is it wood? The dress of my goloks is completely made from buffalo horn.

Hi Henk,

Wow! your's have a horn scabbard?
Mine it's just wood (a little shrunk) with brass bands and buffalo horn throat.
The hilts are horn with aluminium fittings. Couple of very minor age splits, as buffalo horn alwats seems to get.
When I get a chance I'll mix up a little buffalo horn dust and glue to fill them.

Would it be possible to see yours?

Best
Gene

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Gene,
Did I see a Facon or similar amongst your treasure trove?
Regards,
Norman.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Gene,
Did I see a Facon or similar amongst your treasure trove?
Regards,
Norman.

Well......
Funny thing there. Not sure what I'm going to do with that. It wasn't supposed to be a facon.... hold on. I'll start a thread!

[Henk]

Sure Gene,

No problem. First i have to install software for my camera on my PC before i can do that. I have to find some time for that first.
But remember, mine is very recent.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thats interesting, are they all recent? As I say, these 'seem' to have some age, and are supposed to have....
Are they all recent?

Best
gene

Hi Gene,
Sorry for being too vague. By 'recent', I meant within my lifetime. In this case, I would say, around the 3rd-quarter of the 20thC. I'd even stretch my neck out and lean more towards the final quarter. Aas is younger than me and he still produces that type of handle.

Best,

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hi Gene,
Sorry for being too vague. By 'recent', I meant within my lifetime. In this case, I would say, around the 3rd-quarter of the 20thC. I'd even stretch my neck out and lean more towards the final quarter. Aas is younger than me and he still produces that type of handle.

Best,

LOL, I prefered vague to 3rd/4th quarter 20thC!
As I said my pair were allegedly collected around 60 years ago, do you think that's impossible?

Best
Gene

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

LOL, I prefered vague to 3rd/4th quarter 20thC!
As I said my pair were allegedly collected around 60 years ago, do you think that's impossible?

Best
Gene

Hullo Gene (moan...)

I've just had a second look....
OF COURSE it's possible...
It's difficult to be definite because some things change more slowly than others.
Analyzing it logically:
Aluminium wasn't available for general use until 1930s.
Early general use was from scrap metal.
In indo Al wasn't popular until the 1950s.
Here is where I may be wrong:
Three-pinned scales were generally used until the early 1970s, when it was replaced by two-pinned scales.
But, I have never seen that style of handle before H. Aas made them.

Three salient points:
Unusual for TWO hanging rings on the collar and no belt-clasp.
Unusual to cap the pommel.
Unusual crimping(?) pattern on panel above collar.

Conclusion:
It may have been made by his predecessor.
It may have been a custom order.

Best,

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Gene (moan...)

I've just had a second look....
OF COURSE it's possible...
It's difficult to be definite because some things change more slowly than than others.
Analyzing it logically:
Aluminium wasn't available for general use until 1930s.
Early general use was from scrap metal.
In indo Al wasn't popular until the 1950s.
Here is where I may be wrong:
Three-pinned scales were generally used until the early 1970s, when it was replaced by two-pinned scales.
But, I have never seen that style of handle before H. Aas made them.

Three salient points:
Unusual for TWO hanging rings on the collar and no belt-clasp.
Unusual to cap the pommel.
Unusual crimping(?) pattern on panel above collar.

Conclusion:
It may have been made by his predecessor.
It may have been a custom order.

Best,

Thank you my friend,
Please know that I am hugely greatful for your continued help in these matters and your excellent (rather English I might say) humour too

Best
Gene

P.S.
I'll leave you in peace now (for a while )

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thank you my friend,
Please know that I am hugely greatful for your continued help in these matters and your excellent (rather English I might say) humour too

Best
Gene

P.S.
I'll leave you in peace now (for a while )

Hullo Gene,

NP .....
I miss the Clovelly cobblestones and the Red Lions.
Just PLEASE do me a favour:
Don't feed vegetable Cornish pasties as the only fare for lunch (to foreigners) DAILY ... until they develop an aversion to it.

Best,

[DaveA]

Thanks for posting. I too find double weapons very interesting. Here is my "twin golok" for comparison and your comment. Each knife fits side-by-side into its own compartment in a single scabbard. The pattern-welded blades measure 15 3/4 inches long by 1 1/4 inch wide and are very sharp. The ricasso is narrow in width and the blades thicken towards the tip. Each knife measures a total of 22 inches including the hilt. On the side of each blade are struck markings showing what I've been told is the name of the village of provenance. The hilts are made of ironwood. The scabbard is also made of ironwood, with brass decoration and appliances and a mahogany-like wood along the top and bottom line of the scabbard as well as near the opening.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Thanks for posting. I too find double weapons very interesting. Here is my "twin golok" for comparison and your comment. Each knife fits side-by-side into its own compartment in a single scabbard. The pattern-welded blades measure 15 3/4 inches long by 1 1/4 inch wide and are very sharp. The ricasso is narrow in width and the blades thicken towards the tip. Each knife measures a total of 22 inches including the hilt. On the side of each blade are struck markings showing what I've been told is the name of the village of provenance. The hilts are made of ironwood. The scabbard is also made of ironwood, with brass decoration and appliances and a mahogany-like wood along the top and bottom line of the scabbard as well as near the opening.

Hullo DaveA,

Golok Djanoer Ganda Perah Tjeker Oentjal, or simply Golok Ganda.
Made after about 1974 by H. Aas of Tjibatoe, Soekabumi. Model/Style is still current.

Best,

[Henk]

Gene,

As promised. Rather identical to the golok of DaveA and probably made by the same makers of these goloks. Mine was made two and a half year ago.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Gene,

NP .....
I miss the Clovelly cobblestones and the Red Lions.
Just PLEASE do me a favour:
Don't feed vegetable Cornish pasties as the only fare for lunch (to foreigners) DAILY ... until they develop an aversion to it.

Best,

LOL, were you in Blighty then?

Hmmm, vegetable pasties!
A favourite of vegetarians like me.
So I'll save them all for myself.
Best
Gene