for commend

[semar]

this keris I have found one my last holliday the man ware I buy this keris say that this is a keris tangkis one site of the peksi has pamor and the other side has no pamor the same like the blade

[David]

Really need some closer shots. The kendit on both sheath and hilt look faked to me. The blade itself looks nice at a distance. I like the pamor from here. Looks like it is probably a contemporary blade that is nicely executed.

[A. G. Maisey]

Semar, some people say that pamor tangkis has one blade face with pamor and one blade face without pamor, other people say that pamor tangkis has a different pamor on each blade face.

In any case, we can accept that by one definition, this blade is pamor tangkis.

It could be, as David has suggested, recent production, but quite frankly, from these photos it is impossible for me to guess whether it is , or it is not current production.

The wrongko is not a form that we are accustomed to seeing in current work, the pendok is old, and if the kendit line is not natural, it is very probably an imitation with some age. The same remarks can be applied to the hilt.

Disregarding the question of how old it may or may not be, it is in any case quite a nice piece.

[semar]

hello david

the kendit is no fake when I look in to the scabbard I can see the kendit in site the scabbard I have try to make a picteur but with no succes and about the age this is one old blade mister maisy this keris I have buy from jerry I know you now him because you buy your kerissen with the woman she has here chop I think 2 chops behind jerry and I buy now for some years some keris in his chop and to this day he tel me old or new he never lie to me and about the age he was not schure he think modjopahit ore before that

regards semar

[A. G. Maisey]

Semar, I do understand that English is not your native language, and I imagine it might be quite difficult for you sometimes to understand the comments written here.

Please allow me to reassure you that my comment on age did not imply that this blade was recent, nor did it imply that it was old, what I did say was that it was impossible for me to guess if it was old or recent.

Similarly, I did not imply that the kendit markings were false, I commented that the pendok was old and that this style of wrongko and hilt are not usually seen as products of current production, in other words, they are probably old.

It may have facilitated discussion if you had been kind enough to tell us what you can see with the keris in your hand and that David and I cannot see from your photographs.

You already knew that this keris had some age when you posted your comment, similarly, you already knew that the kendit markings were genuine.

Since you were already aware of these two most important things in respect of this keris, I am just a little puzzled as to what comment you could possibly be seeking.

I am uncertain of what you mean by:-

"---he was not schure he think modjopahit ore before that."

are you telling us that the seller identified this keris as tangguh Majapahit, or if not Majapahit, then a tangguh classification prior to Majapahit?

Will you please clarify this point?

Thank you.

Incidentally, I do not know anybody named "Jerry", and the vast bulk of the keris I purchase in Indonesia are not bought from dealers who have shops.I do buy some things from the same dealers who are available to the general public. Things such as ploncons, singaps, mendak, and other necessary bits & pieces.

[David]

Just to re-inforce what Alan has said here, i began my comments with "really need some closer shots". Let me emphasis REALLY. It's hard enough to make accurate commentary on blades that are more closely photographed. My comments were based on what i can see prefaced with LOOKS fake to me and PROBABLY contemporary. My opinions could easily change with a better view. I do agree with Alan that the dress is old. If old the blade is very well kept, though i would have a hard time assigning an age older than Mojopahit.
I am also curious what you hope to gain in this posting. Are you hoping to gain more information about this blade or have any questions answered or are you merely showing it for the sake of the viewing?

[semar]

hello mister maisey

I post this keris for the tangguh he say that he think majapahit ore older but he was not shure about that but what jerry say the blade was old and the scabbard also so that the reason that I post this keris and I think you dont see often a keris tangkis

regards semar

[David]

Certain Semar it is nice to see a keris tangkis, especially one that appears to be so nicely made. Close-ups might help those who dare to make claims of tangguh based solely of photographs.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you for your clarification, Semar.

As has often been stated in this Forum, it is extremely difficult to provide a supportable opinion on tangguh from even the very best and most comprehensive set of photographs.

However, having said that, I am more than prepared to state unequivocally that this blade does not resemble in even the smallest degree any blade that I would recognise as a candidate for classification as Majapahit.

I will go further, and state that it also does resemble in any way, any tangguh classification that I would recognise as possibly pre-dating Majapahit.

I will allow that it could perhaps come from the geographical location of Majapahit, ie , East Jawa, but at a much later date than the date which we associate with Majapahit, ie, pre 1525.

Still, tangguh is only an opinion, and we all have opinions that are inevitably based upon either our knowledge and experience, or perhaps our integrity. Others can accept or reject an opinion as it suits them.

[semar]

yes I agree but I think it will be nice to have a dissusion about the tangguh how you can see that it is singosari ore mataram ,enz when it stops with rain I will try to make some bettere pictures

regards semar

[A. G. Maisey]

Semar, I have repeatedly said that it is almost impossible in most cases to provide a defensible opinion on tangguh based upon photographs.

From a photo we can see broadly what a blade might be, but we cannot provide a defensible opinion. The best we can do when try to discuss tangguh upon the basis of photographs is talk nonsense that can make us look like idiots.

Enough people consider me to be a bit of an idiot as it is, for even taking part in public, online discussions, so I will not add to my idiot fan club by making any further comments relating to the possible tangguh of this keris.

[semar]

oke I see your point

regards semar

[semar]

Originally Posted by semar

this keris I have found one my last holliday the man ware I buy this keris say that this is a keris tangkis one site of the peksi has pamor and the other side has no pamor the same like the blade

I hoop this ar better picteurs

regards semar

[David]

Thanks for the close-ups Semar. I won't make any comments on age, but it is a lovely keris.

[semar]

thank you David

regards semar