Interesting knife -- ? origin

Ian · 3rd June 2005, 11:06 PM

The seller thought this one came from Indonesia but the work on the blade reminds me more of mainland SE Asia (maybe Thai). Thoughts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7326694098

VVV · 3rd June 2005, 11:10 PM

Doesn't it look like a Balinese Wedung?

Michael

BluErf · 4th June 2005, 01:03 AM

Yep, Balinese Wedung, with that brass ornament on the forte. Saw one in Robert Hales' Antique a couple of years back. The handle looks weird though, closer to the Javanese form, but not exactly too. The example I saw had a rounded pommel, like a bulb.

ariel · 4th June 2005, 09:20 AM

All the Wedongs I've seen (and the one I have) have a straight back, no protrusion on the ricasso and unfinished, unpolished blades (they were ceremonial by definition).This one looks very different.
The handle is way off! It looks Philippino to me.
While it does remind wedong somewhat, I am not sure whether it is one.
I am out of town and far from my books.....

Battara · 4th June 2005, 12:11 PM

von Zonndervelds book has a drawing of a Balinese wedong that is identical to this one.

Naga Sasra · 4th June 2005, 12:57 PM

A rather nicely made Pengetas or Balinese Wedung, too bad it was missing the scabbard.
The handle is made of carved buffalo horn, it is not unusual for the Balinese to apply their artistic talents to what they think the handle should look like and you rarely find two pengetas handles alike.
Sorry I missed it.

Ian · 4th June 2005, 01:49 PM

It is a Balinese wedung, as VVV, BluErf, Battara and Naga Sasra have noted, and identical to the drawing in v. Zonneveld as pointed out by Battara.

What was throwing me astray was the markedly clipped blade, the heavy use of brass (especially those little inlays along the spine which are reminiscent of Thai work), and the extensive koftgari (?) work on the blade. It was obviously not a Javanese wedung (as Ariel noted), but a Balinese ceremonial wedung makes sense -- never seen one of these before and I would guess they must be uncommon.

Maybe next time

Mick · 4th June 2005, 09:49 PM

This item has appeared before.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000732.html

I looked at the piece on eBay and, since I had two sheaths, made bids on it as it was in better condition that the one that I have. Both sheaths are illustrated in the referenced address. Discussion in the topic brought out that the piece should be properly called a ceremonial weapon as it is utilixed iby a priest in the cremation ceremony to open the final crematory item (bull or what ever) in order to insert the corpse as part of the ceremony.

Andrew · 4th June 2005, 10:03 PM

Thanks for the link to that excellent thread, Mick!

Great stuff.

RobT · 6th June 2005, 05:49 AM

First thanks to Mick for the thread refrence. It's just great. I just want to give a quick reference to Stone's pg 249, Figure 306, number 6. I saw one of these pieces with the figural hilt as pictured. All these blades I've seen (admittedly only 3) have the same type of decoration on the spine next the hilt (as Stone would say).
Sincerely,
RobT

3rd June 2005, 11:06 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Interesting knife -- ? origin The seller thought this one came from Indonesia but the work on the blade reminds me more of mainland SE Asia (maybe Thai). Thoughts. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7326694098

4th June 2005, 01:49 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Thanks guys ... It is a Balinese wedung, as VVV, BluErf, Battara and Naga Sasra have noted, and identical to the drawing in v. Zonneveld as pointed out by Battara. What was throwing me astray was the markedly clipped blade, the heavy use of brass (especially those little inlays along the spine which are reminiscent of Thai work), and the extensive koftgari (?) work on the blade. It was obviously not a Javanese wedung (as Ariel noted), but a Balinese ceremonial wedung makes sense -- never seen one of these before and I would guess they must be uncommon. Maybe next time

6th June 2005, 05:49 AM	#10
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 490	Stone's pg 249 First thanks to Mick for the thread refrence. It's just great. I just want to give a quick reference to Stone's pg 249, Figure 306, number 6. I saw one of these pieces with the figural hilt as pictured. All these blades I've seen (admittedly only 3) have the same type of decoration on the spine next the hilt (as Stone would say). Sincerely, RobT

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3rd June 2005, 11:10 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Doesn't it look like a Balinese Wedung? Michael

4th June 2005, 01:03 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Yep, Balinese Wedung, with that brass ornament on the forte. Saw one in Robert Hales' Antique a couple of years back. The handle looks weird though, closer to the Javanese form, but not exactly too. The example I saw had a rounded pommel, like a bulb.

4th June 2005, 09:20 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	All the Wedongs I've seen (and the one I have) have a straight back, no protrusion on the ricasso and unfinished, unpolished blades (they were ceremonial by definition).This one looks very different. The handle is way off! It looks Philippino to me. While it does remind wedong somewhat, I am not sure whether it is one. I am out of town and far from my books.....

4th June 2005, 12:11 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	von Zonndervelds book has a drawing of a Balinese wedong that is identical to this one.

4th June 2005, 12:57 PM	#6
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	A rather nicely made Pengetas or Balinese Wedung, too bad it was missing the scabbard. The handle is made of carved buffalo horn, it is not unusual for the Balinese to apply their artistic talents to what they think the handle should look like and you rarely find two pengetas handles alike. Sorry I missed it.

4th June 2005, 09:49 PM	#8
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	This item has appeared before. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000732.html I looked at the piece on eBay and, since I had two sheaths, made bids on it as it was in better condition that the one that I have. Both sheaths are illustrated in the referenced address. Discussion in the topic brought out that the piece should be properly called a ceremonial weapon as it is utilixed iby a priest in the cremation ceremony to open the final crematory item (bull or what ever) in order to insert the corpse as part of the ceremony.

4th June 2005, 10:03 PM	#9
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Thanks for the link to that excellent thread, Mick! Great stuff.