Translation - cartouche on Sher Bacha

longfellow · 26th April 2010, 02:13 AM

Good day all,

I have an Ottoman rampart gun and it has a cartouche with Arabic (I think) writing/symbols. I was wondering if anybody might be able to tell me what they mean/say?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Dom · 26th April 2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfellow

Good day all,

I have an Ottoman rampart gun and it has a cartouche with Arabic (I think) writing/symbols. I was wondering if anybody might be able to tell me what they mean/say?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Hi "longfellow"
might you take few minutes, and read that post
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11201
later, it will be possible to see "if" we may do something for you

with my best regards

à +

Dom

longfellow · 26th April 2010, 06:27 PM

Hello Dom,

Yes, I had read that, but considering the size of the piece - 60" long - I thought I would do everybody a favor and not att the extra photos.

However, since you have asked, here they are.

Best regards.

Dom · 26th April 2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfellow

However, since you have asked, here they are.

not "me" ask for

it's a rule for every body ... included myself

pity that I cannot determine where is the cartouche on the gun, because on one of the picture I saw something else ... (on the tube)

- that sign < who is 8 in Arabic
but
- if the sign is > it is 7 in Arabic
it's the sens of reading will told me, could be arsenal n° ?, capacity of charge ? caliber ?

back to the cartouche, clear translation for
- AMAL either MADE BY
lign below ???? a name, but illigible

à +

Dom

longfellow · 26th April 2010, 07:53 PM

Hello Dom,

Thank you for the effort.

I posted the photo showing the position - the oval - of the cartouche on the barrel.

Best regards,

David

longfellow · 26th April 2010, 08:00 PM

Dom,

Here's another shot of the cartouche. I can't believe just how hard it is trying to get a good view of it. Maybe this will help, Also, there is a small mark above it that was hidden under the barrel strap.

Best regards,

David

Dom · 26th April 2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfellow

Hello Dom,

Thank you for the effort.

I posted the photo showing the position - the oval - of the cartouche on the barrel.

Best regards,

David

OKkkkk !!

forget about my "deliriums" concerning an Arabic digit ...

it's just an picture effect who abused me

sorry for the false joy

à +

Dom

Dom · 26th April 2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfellow

Also, there is a small mark above it that was hidden under the barrel strap.

Hi David
that, by the way, could be (?) gunsmith stamp/mark

à +

Dom

longfellow · 26th April 2010, 08:28 PM

Hi Dom,

A gunsmith mark - that would be nice!

Do you know of any reference - books, papers, etc. - that might have records of weapons makers of the Ottomans?

I was quite surprised when I first started closely examining the piece and found that it is in very good working condition - trigger and all. And, the inlay seems to be gold. The barrel is ferrous and, without taking down any of the patina, it looks like it may well be watered.

Best regards,

David

Dom · 27th April 2010, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfellow

Hi Dom,

A gunsmith mark - that would be nice!

Do you know of any reference - books, papers, etc. - that might have records of weapons makers of the Ottomans?

e.i.
http://books.google.com/books?id=epa...page&q&f=false
use "google"

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfellow

I was quite surprised when I first started closely examining the piece and found that it is in very good working condition - trigger and all. And, the inlay seems to be gold. The barrel is ferrous and, without taking down any of the patina, it looks like it may well be watered.

David, be cautious your gun is from the 18th century (may be early 18th)
treat him with respect, don't be too much tough

the trigger is "fragile" specially the springs

à +

Dom

longfellow · 27th April 2010, 04:20 AM

Dom, thanks for the kick in the pants - and the point in the right direction - to check google. I'll have to see about picking that up.

Yes, something like this piece needs care and consideration - it was here long before me and will survive me (I hope) by at least as much longer. At least, temporarily, it has a safe environment. Needed to be cleaned up though and and checked to find condition and quality of function. Now it can be carefully stored. It even has it's original iron ram rod.

longfellow · 4th May 2010, 01:14 AM

Hello Dom,

I just got a report on this piece:

"This gun is a Turkish gun which was produced in Egypt at Mohammad Ali Military Factory in Cairo, the specific date of production is not known but it is estimated between the years 1820 - 1849. This gun was made specialy for "Omar Pasha" who is one of famous Ottoman Generals.

His name is written on the gun and it was give to him when he was at the rank of Amiralay = L. General rank today."

Looking up and reading the history and various accounts of Omar Pasha Latas is quite interesting, to say the least.

Thanks for your help!

David

26th April 2010, 02:13 AM	#1
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Translation - cartouche on Sher Bacha Good day all, I have an Ottoman rampart gun and it has a cartouche with Arabic (I think) writing/symbols. I was wondering if anybody might be able to tell me what they mean/say? Thank you for your time and consideration. Attached Images

26th April 2010, 06:27 PM	#3
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Hello Dom, Yes, I had read that, but considering the size of the piece - 60" long - I thought I would do everybody a favor and not att the extra photos. However, since you have asked, here they are. Best regards. Attached Images

26th April 2010, 07:53 PM	#5
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Hello Dom, Thank you for the effort. I posted the photo showing the position - the oval - of the cartouche on the barrel. Best regards, David Attached Images

26th April 2010, 08:00 PM	#6
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Dom, Here's another shot of the cartouche. I can't believe just how hard it is trying to get a good view of it. Maybe this will help, Also, there is a small mark above it that was hidden under the barrel strap. Best regards, David Attached Images

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26th April 2010, 08:28 PM	#9
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Hi Dom, A gunsmith mark - that would be nice! Do you know of any reference - books, papers, etc. - that might have records of weapons makers of the Ottomans? I was quite surprised when I first started closely examining the piece and found that it is in very good working condition - trigger and all. And, the inlay seems to be gold. The barrel is ferrous and, without taking down any of the patina, it looks like it may well be watered. Best regards, David

27th April 2010, 04:20 AM	#11
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Dom, thanks for the kick in the pants - and the point in the right direction - to check google. I'll have to see about picking that up. Yes, something like this piece needs care and consideration - it was here long before me and will survive me (I hope) by at least as much longer. At least, temporarily, it has a safe environment. Needed to be cleaned up though and and checked to find condition and quality of function. Now it can be carefully stored. It even has it's original iron ram rod.

4th May 2010, 01:14 AM	#12
longfellow Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Hello Dom, I just got a report on this piece: "This gun is a Turkish gun which was produced in Egypt at Mohammad Ali Military Factory in Cairo, the specific date of production is not known but it is estimated between the years 1820 - 1849. This gun was made specialy for "Omar Pasha" who is one of famous Ottoman Generals. His name is written on the gun and it was give to him when he was at the rank of Amiralay = L. General rank today." Looking up and reading the history and various accounts of Omar Pasha Latas is quite interesting, to say the least. Thanks for your help! David