Sword Blade dates? or Mysterious Gematria?

Jim McDougall · 5th September 2009, 10:43 PM

On many sword blades, there are numbers boldly inscribed which are often assumed to be dates for the blade, sometimes presumed to be significant for memorable events. Through the years arms scholars have studied these distinct numbers and realized that the consistant appearance of many of these appear to be numeric combinations rather than actual dates.

The most prevalent of these numbers seem to be 1414 and 1441, and there is a degree of material concerning this apparant phenomenon discussed by Eduard Wagner in "Cut and Thrust Weapons" (1967) on. p.76.

He mentions the work by Walter Rose, in "Zeitschrift fur Historische Waffen und Kostumkunde" (Vol. 14, 1935-36,p.131 ) titled ,
"Die Klingenmarke 1414 (1441) and Related Numerical Signs".
In this article, the author suggests that these numbers may be the sum of certain numbers such as 7+7+7+7, the number 7 lucky and the sum perhaps talismanically compounded. He also hints at the possibility of recording of dates of famous events.

Wagner notes further that these numbers often appear with the famed 'running wolf' marking, which would seem to emphasize my personal belief in that particular marking being talismanic in nature. The use of other numbers, not as commonly seen is noted by Wagner as associated with particular German makers; Johannes Wundes -1479, Johannes Keuller-1495, Meves Berns-1506, Johnann Hartkop-1506, Mathias Wundes-1515 and Peter Munich 1436.

Earlier references to the use of magical numbers in blade marking was noted to a mysterious figure named Sephacial from England, who published an esoteric book titled "Little Book of Magic" (no details of when published), but was probably latter 19th century.

There seems to be some perception that at least in the case of the numbers 1414 there is a possibility of these numbers being a passage from the Bible, Book of Job, 14:14, "...man dying, will he live again? All the days of my warfare would I wait, until my release shall come".
While there are variations in wording depending on which translation is used, the original verses were translated by Martin Luther from Greek.

As these numbers seem to have typically been presumed as a date, it is interesting to think of them as representing a Bible passage as seen in the following instance. In "A History of the Episcopal Church in Narranganseth, Rhode Island" ( Wilkins Updike, 1907, p.61), a description of the belongings of one of the prominant members, apparantly a Hugeuenot from France who died in 1736, the following is noted; "....and an ancient sword bearing the date 1414".

Clearly even among devoutly religious persons, these numbers were seen as a date, rather than this certainly well known passage.

The use of numbers in the practice of gematria, well established in Kabbalistic parlance, and often used talismanically in the latter 17th and throughout the 18th century on sword blades in varying application with other symbols seems suggested here.
The number combination 1441 possibly may be a palindrome, and is seen on other blades, along with the familiar 'Passau wolf' on Portuguese swords of 16th, perhaps later, swords.

On a British hanger c.1740, in the same bold manner as many of these, is the date '1536'. It is suggested that this records the date of the beginning of the noted dissolution of monasteries and the break between the Anglican Church and Roman Catholic Church by Henry VIII.

I think it would be interesting to see examples of swords with these dates and others, and review whether talismanic, or other significance would be applied to them.

5th September 2009, 10:43 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,140	Sword Blade dates? or Mysterious Gematria? On many sword blades, there are numbers boldly inscribed which are often assumed to be dates for the blade, sometimes presumed to be significant for memorable events. Through the years arms scholars have studied these distinct numbers and realized that the consistant appearance of many of these appear to be numeric combinations rather than actual dates. The most prevalent of these numbers seem to be 1414 and 1441, and there is a degree of material concerning this apparant phenomenon discussed by Eduard Wagner in "Cut and Thrust Weapons" (1967) on. p.76. He mentions the work by Walter Rose, in "Zeitschrift fur Historische Waffen und Kostumkunde" (Vol. 14, 1935-36,p.131 ) titled , "Die Klingenmarke 1414 (1441) and Related Numerical Signs". In this article, the author suggests that these numbers may be the sum of certain numbers such as 7+7+7+7, the number 7 lucky and the sum perhaps talismanically compounded. He also hints at the possibility of recording of dates of famous events. Wagner notes further that these numbers often appear with the famed 'running wolf' marking, which would seem to emphasize my personal belief in that particular marking being talismanic in nature. The use of other numbers, not as commonly seen is noted by Wagner as associated with particular German makers; Johannes Wundes -1479, Johannes Keuller-1495, Meves Berns-1506, Johnann Hartkop-1506, Mathias Wundes-1515 and Peter Munich 1436. Earlier references to the use of magical numbers in blade marking was noted to a mysterious figure named Sephacial from England, who published an esoteric book titled "Little Book of Magic" (no details of when published), but was probably latter 19th century. There seems to be some perception that at least in the case of the numbers 1414 there is a possibility of these numbers being a passage from the Bible, Book of Job, 14:14, "...man dying, will he live again? All the days of my warfare would I wait, until my release shall come". While there are variations in wording depending on which translation is used, the original verses were translated by Martin Luther from Greek. As these numbers seem to have typically been presumed as a date, it is interesting to think of them as representing a Bible passage as seen in the following instance. In "A History of the Episcopal Church in Narranganseth, Rhode Island" ( Wilkins Updike, 1907, p.61), a description of the belongings of one of the prominant members, apparantly a Hugeuenot from France who died in 1736, the following is noted; "....and an ancient sword bearing the date 1414". Clearly even among devoutly religious persons, these numbers were seen as a date, rather than this certainly well known passage. The use of numbers in the practice of gematria, well established in Kabbalistic parlance, and often used talismanically in the latter 17th and throughout the 18th century on sword blades in varying application with other symbols seems suggested here. The number combination 1441 possibly may be a palindrome, and is seen on other blades, along with the familiar 'Passau wolf' on Portuguese swords of 16th, perhaps later, swords. On a British hanger c.1740, in the same bold manner as many of these, is the date '1536'. It is suggested that this records the date of the beginning of the noted dissolution of monasteries and the break between the Anglican Church and Roman Catholic Church by Henry VIII. I think it would be interesting to see examples of swords with these dates and others, and review whether talismanic, or other significance would be applied to them. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 6th September 2009 at 03:16 AM.