Interesting Spanish Canary Islands Punal

celtan · 25th July 2009, 12:52 PM

Hi Guys,

Wow, did this thread move fast in the last couple days!

(And just when I had DSL problems...)

My two cents:

"Secessionism" in Spain is as old (at least!), as the pre-roman celtic migrations. They were in continuous wars against each other. Even today, if you visit the mountain hamlets you'd be surprised at the belligerant attitudes between villages simply because they are located on different mountains, valleys etc.. The excuses are limitless. And yet, when you look at the people, their appearance is similar, often sporting the same surnames et al..!

The only thing maintaining Hispania's cohesion was Roman Military Might, then Visigothic, then Castillian etc... ad nauseum.

The modern usage of the world cuchilla in Spanish refers basically to a flat-bladed pocket knife, folding or not.

As I said before, meanings differ according to location. In fact, sometimes words degenerate in their usage according to geographical differences, and end up having the opposite of their original meaning.

I don't see much difference in the Canarias, Mexican and the Albacete knives mentioned. They are probably off-shoots of the same original Mediterranean concept. Wouldn't surprise me if it came with Greek/Carthaginian colonists to Spain, just like the kopis/falcata.

It's a recurring theme for people from different locations to try to claim their own version of "whatever" is different, prettier and "better", even though all the "whatevers" are basically the same.

Compared to Gonzalo's, my direct experiences with Mexico are limited, but in those areas of Northern Mexico I traveled through, the (adult) people I met invariably adressed their language as being "Mexicano", not Spanish. OTOH, they were mostly peasants and laborers, obviously not well educated, and almost always racially American. That may be the clincher.

Regarding Spain's former leader, Francisco Franco, most people don't realize he was an ardent galleguista, but not to the expense of the Nation. In fact, he spoke fluent galaico-portugues.

Franco revelled in his origins, but he also understood the importance of a central official language. His position regarding same merely evoked those of the advising cognoscenti of his era. I happen to agree with his views on it, just like I believe on the need for an official central language in our good ole' US of A. (This doesn't preclude the concurrent and parallel existence of otherl languages within separate ethnic groups.)

Often times, we commit the error of adscribing to people the cause of historical events, when in fact they were merely their product.

In Spain itself, Castillian refers to the dialect spoken in that area, which has become the central official language of Spain. Outside of the peninsula, as in America, it is correct to use the term "Spanish" instead. A similar situation occurs with Italian, German, Chinese etc...

Regarding the "Academia de la Lengua". It is my opinion that it is mostly a political tool for finding common links between Hispanic-based cultures and Nations, and it's anything but strict or even logical regarding the admittance of new words and usages. Basically, anything goes. Personally, I don't use it as reference. IMHO, languages are living entities that change according to local needs, and trying to encompass all changes is simply illogical.

It is very interesting the comment on the shape of the FS "puñal" handle, so similar to the spanish-mediterranean "cuchillos". I had always felt something familiar about the knife, yet could never actually point out what it was. I guess, I couldn't psychologically relate the relatively small and almost dainty FS to the large and brutish Albacetes...

Best regards y'all

M

25th July 2009, 12:52 PM	#19
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi Guys, Wow, did this thread move fast in the last couple days! (And just when I had DSL problems...) My two cents: "Secessionism" in Spain is as old (at least!), as the pre-roman celtic migrations. They were in continuous wars against each other. Even today, if you visit the mountain hamlets you'd be surprised at the belligerant attitudes between villages simply because they are located on different mountains, valleys etc.. The excuses are limitless. And yet, when you look at the people, their appearance is similar, often sporting the same surnames et al..! The only thing maintaining Hispania's cohesion was Roman Military Might, then Visigothic, then Castillian etc... ad nauseum. The modern usage of the world cuchilla in Spanish refers basically to a flat-bladed pocket knife, folding or not. As I said before, meanings differ according to location. In fact, sometimes words degenerate in their usage according to geographical differences, and end up having the opposite of their original meaning. I don't see much difference in the Canarias, Mexican and the Albacete knives mentioned. They are probably off-shoots of the same original Mediterranean concept. Wouldn't surprise me if it came with Greek/Carthaginian colonists to Spain, just like the kopis/falcata. It's a recurring theme for people from different locations to try to claim their own version of "whatever" is different, prettier and "better", even though all the "whatevers" are basically the same. Compared to Gonzalo's, my direct experiences with Mexico are limited, but in those areas of Northern Mexico I traveled through, the (adult) people I met invariably adressed their language as being "Mexicano", not Spanish. OTOH, they were mostly peasants and laborers, obviously not well educated, and almost always racially American. That may be the clincher. Regarding Spain's former leader, Francisco Franco, most people don't realize he was an ardent galleguista, but not to the expense of the Nation. In fact, he spoke fluent galaico-portugues. Franco revelled in his origins, but he also understood the importance of a central official language. His position regarding same merely evoked those of the advising cognoscenti of his era. I happen to agree with his views on it, just like I believe on the need for an official central language in our good ole' US of A. (This doesn't preclude the concurrent and parallel existence of otherl languages within separate ethnic groups.) Often times, we commit the error of adscribing to people the cause of historical events, when in fact they were merely their product. In Spain itself, Castillian refers to the dialect spoken in that area, which has become the central official language of Spain. Outside of the peninsula, as in America, it is correct to use the term "Spanish" instead. A similar situation occurs with Italian, German, Chinese etc... Regarding the "Academia de la Lengua". It is my opinion that it is mostly a political tool for finding common links between Hispanic-based cultures and Nations, and it's anything but strict or even logical regarding the admittance of new words and usages. Basically, anything goes. Personally, I don't use it as reference. IMHO, languages are living entities that change according to local needs, and trying to encompass all changes is simply illogical. It is very interesting the comment on the shape of the FS "puñal" handle, so similar to the spanish-mediterranean "cuchillos". I had always felt something familiar about the knife, yet could never actually point out what it was. I guess, I couldn't psychologically relate the relatively small and almost dainty FS to the large and brutish Albacetes... Best regards y'all M Last edited by celtan; 25th July 2009 at 01:08 PM.